Visitor once removed - help me with ID

• 08-07-2008 4:46 PM

  Thalie Joined on 01-01-2007 Louisiana Posts 1,016 Points 115

  Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact My neighbor once removed occasionally keeps his children's dogs for a few days. I've seen a Weim and a Weim mix (don't ask) and on a couple of occasions, this dog. It is the only one Spip has trouble accepting (good thing there is a whole other yard between us, lol), probably because he just camps himself at the fence and stares into yards and at other dogs. How rude, lol ! Those are not the best pics but I left the fence in when I cropped so you would have an idea of the size (the fence is 4 ft high).Could anybody tell me what I am looking at ? I have a couple of ideas but am really not sure.                               Side view   ETA : for some reason the pictures are mixed up with my signature. Sorry. Nathalie & the Monstresses

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• 08-07-2008 5:02 PM

  In reply to Thalie

  Krissim Klaw Joined on 08-26-2007 Posts 267 Points 100	Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact  I'm by no means an expert but by those pictures I'm thinking Australian shepherd.
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• 08-07-2008 5:03 PM

  In reply to Krissim Klaw

  Benedict Joined on 05-30-2006 England Posts 5,083 Points 770	Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact  Border Collie mixed with something that could explain the head.  A Pyr, maybe, since the dog looks very big for a BC. Kate - Dog.community Administrator Jokers to the right.
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• 08-07-2008 5:05 PM

  In reply to Benedict

  Chuffy Joined on 12-17-2006 UK Posts 5,163 Points 10

  Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact I was think Pyr X collie as well....  Or maybe Pyr x Aussie.  "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." (Pratchett, Jingo) "I used to look at [my dog] Smokey and think, 'If you were a little smarter you could tell me what you were thinking,' and he'd look at me like he was saying, 'If you were a little smarter, I wouldn't have to.'" - Fred Jungclaus

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• 08-07-2008 5:10 PM

  In reply to Chuffy

  Benedict Joined on 05-30-2006 England Posts 5,083 Points 770	Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact  On second look...it's not just the head.  That front end is very Pyr to me, too.  And it's a likely mix, since both are/can be farm dogs, wouldn't be surprising to find them in the same place.  Kate - Dog.community Administrator Jokers to the right.
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• 08-07-2008 5:34 PM

  In reply to Benedict

  Thalie Joined on 01-01-2007 Louisiana Posts 1,016 Points 115

  Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact The neighbor himself has a BC. There are really not many Pyrs in this area but nothing is impossible. He is a really big dog (I would estimate him at 90 lbs). I found one more picture of him showing him in movement if it can give more clues. My personal guess was something with Australian Shepherd but those are pretty rare around here too so it is just a wild guess. Thank you for helping me satisfy my curiosity Nathalie & the Monstresses

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• 08-07-2008 6:31 PM

  In reply to Thalie

  BCMixs Joined on 01-10-2008 Virginia Posts 1,147 Points 25	Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact  It doesn't look like he has a tail so I'd say some sort of aussie cross.  He reminds me of my Indie, minus the tail. "I wonder what goes through his mind when he sees us peeing in his water bowl" Penny Ward Moser Save a life, make a shelter pet part of your family.
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• 08-07-2008 10:52 PM

  In reply to BCMixs

  Pwca Joined on 09-10-2006 Dallas, Texas Posts 1,305 Points 305	Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact I'd be very surprised if there was anything OTHER than Aussie in there, TBH.
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• 08-08-2008 10:00 AM

  In reply to Thalie

  BCMixs Joined on 01-10-2008 Virginia Posts 1,147 Points 25

  Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact Thalie: The neighbor himself has a BC. There are really not many Pyrs in this area but nothing is impossible. He is a really big dog (I would estimate him at 90 lbs). I found one more picture of him showing him in movement if it can give more clues. My personal guess was something with Australian Shepherd but those are pretty rare around here too so it is just a wild guess. Thank you for helping me satisfy my curiosity   I wonder where he's from.  You're down south and Indie came from Florida.  He gets the Pyr label alot also, but according to his breeder, his parents are both pure BCs, just a really big Dad.  I wonder if BCs and Aussies just come bigger down south?    "I wonder what goes through his mind when he sees us peeing in his water bowl" Penny Ward Moser Save a life, make a shelter pet part of your family.

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• 08-08-2008 11:07 AM

  In reply to Thalie

  brookcove Joined on 09-10-2007 Semora, North Carolina, USA Posts 4,020 Points 335

  Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact Aussie/Great Pyrenees or Maremma.  There's a ton of Maremmas down your way - especially if you are near the TX border.  I have a friend with an Aussie/GP (a rescue from Georgia) and he's a little more massive with more of a mastiffy looking head, so that's what makes me lean more towards an LGD breed with less head.  Aussie for sure - there's no mistaking that square build and the look/expression - I can spot it a mile away. Here's an Aussie/BC mix I just placed last week for comparison.  Even though this dog works very much like a BC, that Aussie personality tends to come out strong in any mix.  I believe Lynn is an Aussie mix too, though she doesn't really have any physical looks that would lead one to think so. Here's the Aussie/BC - note the expression and square build.    I wonder if BCs and Aussies just come bigger down south? Not really.  Becca Shouse Maggie and Zhi (queen bees), Ben, Gus, Cord, Rocky, Ted (BCs), Lu and Tully (Maremma flock guardians) Irena Farm, Semora, NC

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• 08-08-2008 3:28 PM

  In reply to Thalie

  denise m Joined on 12-06-2006 Toronto Canada Posts 1,124 Points 70

  Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact I definitely say Aussie. There is actually quite a variation in their size. Most Aussies I see are much smaller than Kobi. A male Aussie can be up to 23" at the withers and be within the standard. Kobi is actually 24.5. If you look at the 4 ft fence, this dog looks to be close to 24". The square body is Aussie all the way. The neck appears a little long, but that could be because his ruff is not as full as the typical Aussie.

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• 08-08-2008 9:44 PM

  In reply to denise m

  brookcove Joined on 09-10-2007 Semora, North Carolina, USA Posts 4,020 Points 335

  Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact  I'd love to know whether this dog has dew claws - double dewclaws would be a dead giveaway but not all Maremmas have them.  Min and her sister both appear to have had singles but some ignorant breeder snipped them off. I'd put the dog's height at 26" or possibly more.  Don't eyeball straight to the fence, but take the measurement from foot bottom (hardly visible in the grass) to the top of those very high withers, and it will come out much more than halfway up the fence.  Allow a bit for perspective and my guess is 26". I just measured Min (finally).  She's 29 and a half inches.  She thought the tape measure was very weird and scary but I believe she was standing straight.  Most of my purebred Border Collies and the Aussies I've had here have fallen between 19 and 22 inches (Ben's a tall BC at 23 1/2" - he's always the tallest BC everywhere we've been).  Aussies around here seem to tend to be smaller/shorter.  The conformation lines seem to favor a short stocky dog while the working lines like an agile, even smaller dog (I am told these smaller dogs are more effective on heels when working cattle).  The little dog I posted above came from a working cattle farm down south in GA. Becca Shouse Maggie and Zhi (queen bees), Ben, Gus, Cord, Rocky, Ted (BCs), Lu and Tully (Maremma flock guardians) Irena Farm, Semora, NC

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• 08-09-2008 10:30 AM

  In reply to brookcove

  Pwca Joined on 09-10-2006 Dallas, Texas Posts 1,305 Points 305	Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact I see more than a few Aussies running agility at shows who are Mal-sized. Mal is 25.75, and we know quite a few (poorly bred) pet Aussies from the dog park who are even larger.   The decent breeders- working OR show- breed for a nice medium dog. The pet people have the whole 'bigger is better' thing going on, apparently.
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• 08-09-2008 4:50 PM

  In reply to brookcove

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 9,940 Points 715

  Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact Pyrs can have the double dew claws, too, so that wouldn't necessarily be a dead giveaway.  I do think that this is a mix, and my guess is Maremma x Aussie, too.  A Maremma would have less angulation in the hock than an Aussie, something like a Pyr, and would not have as straight a topline.  An Aussie should have an almond shaped eye, not a round eye.  Stockdogs would be smaller - my girl is not even 19" and about 35 pounds.  Her daddy was 40 pounds, and not much taller.  It's correct that they are deliberately smaller to keep out of the way of cattle kicks - heelers go in for the grab sideways and need to stay under the kicks.  Perfect example on this page: http://users.htcomp.net/slashv/home.htm Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 19 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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• 08-09-2008 10:41 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  brookcove Joined on 09-10-2007 Semora, North Carolina, USA Posts 4,020 Points 335

  Re: Visitor once removed - help me with ID Reply Contact : Pyrs can have the double dew claws, too, so that wouldn't necessarily be a dead giveaway. Right.  What I meant was, double dews are a giveway as to LGD heritage in a furry, white, large mix.  Pyrenees, Maremma, Kuvasz, Akhbash, Tatra, etc, etc.  But it's not a for sure thing if they are NOT there - Min's breeder took hers off and she's purebred.  Go figure.  You'd kinda think a working/fighting dog would need a functional digit. Here's a not-very-good picture of Min for comparison.  The "cape" over the shoulders and the way the fur grows around the head is interesting to compare, as is the length of neck (a little foreshortened in Min's picture), and the paws.     Becca Shouse Maggie and Zhi (queen bees), Ben, Gus, Cord, Rocky, Ted (BCs), Lu and Tully (Maremma flock guardians) Irena Farm, Semora, NC

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