This is the U.S.A. - English, please

• 07-03-2008 12:31 PM

  In reply to Indy05

  BCMixs Joined on 01-10-2008 Virginia Posts 1,149 Points 25

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact It does bother me a bit.  When I was with my family in Germany, I didn't learn much and was treated pretty shabbily by retail and restaurant workers because of it.  I don't blame them.  I'm in their country, if I expect to be serviced, I needed to learn some basic phrases to get around. It bothers me that I need to continue to struggle to get a handle on Spanish to get a job in my chosen field because of the growing population of hispanic crime victims.  It bothers me because I've been studying it for some time now, spent lots of $$$ on different programs and classes and I still SUCK!!!  And I know that it's beginning to be a more important skill than my freaking college degree! And finally, it bothers me because of the toll the influx of illegal immigration is taking on the school systems.  They are having to cut many other important programs in order to fill the schools with ESL classes for the children of these immigrants.  These immigrants do not pay taxes into the system that must support them (mandatory school and medical care) and the other english speaking students suffer as a result.  I do not think that is fair.  I am all for having legal immigrants in the country and all they can contribute (including tax dollars to support infrastructure) but the toll it's taking on medical and educational providers is getting beyond belief.  I think a mandatory requirement for legal immigration should be a working command of the english language.  This is required in other countries, I don't see why it shouldn't be here.  You have to be able to function in the country in which you choose to live, and without the language, your ability to function is greatly limited.  And honestly, I don't mind products printed with both languages, but at Walmart on more than one ocassion, I've picked up products with ONLY spanish!  THAT pisses me off!  "I wonder what goes through his mind when he sees us peeing in his water bowl" Penny Ward Moser Save a life, make a shelter pet part of your family.

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• 07-03-2008 12:55 PM

  In reply to janet_rose

  fuzzy_dogs_mom Joined on 09-10-2007 Davis, CA Posts 6,495 Points 200

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact janet_rose: I also get annoyed when I read instructions that are written in English, but which are obviously written by non-native speakers.  If a company is going to market in a country, it is silly not to be sure that the product instructions sound professional. Oh Lord,  tell me about it!  I was assembling a couple of cranes to put in the back yard yesterday and the instructions actually said "put A and B together so A and  B will scr*w"  -  can't imagine where that was written.  Fortunately, I can figure out which end of a crane the head goes on and which end the feet go on without instructions. Joyce

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• 07-03-2008 3:50 PM

  In reply to fuzzy_dogs_mom

  georgie4682 Joined on 09-10-2007 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania Posts 1,071 Points 425

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact This is something I was thankful  for when DH and I went to Greece last summer.  They had english translations for everything.  On road signs, food cartons, everywhere.  Without any english there we would have been lost.  Even some of the clerks in stores knew at least some english. DH tried to learn the language  bit before we went, but, man that is a tough language to get.  GeorgAnne, Buster (greyhound mix - 13 years), Lady (beagle mix? - 14 Years), Max (GSD/cattledog - 9 years), and Benny (pom - 3 years) - CGC

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• 07-03-2008 4:52 PM

  In reply to georgie4682

  cakana Joined on 09-10-2007 Cathy in Northern CA Posts 6,521 Points 360

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact I lived in Germany for 4 years and was amazed at how fluent most Germans are in English. Especially the younger people. Before I left to go there, I was told to at least try to speak their language and I did. They seemed to really appreciate the effort and I learned so much faster by having them work with me on improving. I was definitely fluent in ordering food or drinks at a restaurant ~ Cathy ~

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• 07-03-2008 9:24 PM

  In reply to polarexpress

  sillysally Joined on 09-10-2007 Indiana Posts 3,376 Points 0

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact polarexpress: chelsea_b: No. Because the US doesn't have, and NEVER has had, an official language. English may be the "de facto", but that doesn't mean much. There has been no formal declaration that English is the official language, but it is pretty clear it is the national language when the ability to read, write, and speak English is a requirement to become a citizen. I have no problem with this and it disturbs me when I meet people who were born and raised in the US who do not have a good command of the English language. It "disturbs" me because English is the language of our national political life. Someone who has difficulty understanding English is less able to fully participate in our democracy and I think that is a shame.   I agree.  I could care less whether or not things are printed in Spanish, but English is the language spoken by the majority here and people *need* to learn it if they are going to make a life here. I realize that learning a new language is a challenge, but seriously, it's not like going from Spanish to English is the end of the world.  Immigrants from Europe, Asia, Africa, etc are expected to learn English without all the crutches available to Spanish speakers, and for the most part they do so with great success.  I work with a pair a women from Korea and a man from Cambodia who all came over here as adults who did not know English and have all become good enough at the language to carry on written and oral communication with English speakers.  My grandmother had several caretakers when she was alive-one from the Ukraine, one from Poland, and one from Russia.  All of them learned English as adults and were successful at it.  Olga, the caretaker from Russia, was always trying to become better at the language--she even kept a vocab list.  At my old job there were some construction workers that were from Poland.  Two of them were pretty good at English and one had just come over and was still learning, *but* he was definitely giving it the old college try. DH met some Serbian immigrants when he was doing his machining apprenticeship who were *very* resentful of the way that Spanish speakers are catered to over here......   "Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

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• 07-03-2008 9:50 PM

  In reply to sillysally

  ron2 Joined on 09-10-2007 far north central Texas Posts 9,457 Points 500

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact While I agree that one should learn the language of the country one lives in, on the job, I don't have time to wait for an immigrant to learn English. It is quicker and easier for me to learn Spanish, at least enough to say "necessito Caja arriba quarenti ocho pulgares aja." On the other hand, I have learned a bit of Tex-Mex and some of the guys are trying to help me clean it up. For example, the phrase"no bueno por caca" is nonsensical in Spanish. It is a gringo mashing an american concept into Spanish. That's because Spanish does not use an object as an adverb. I also speak German and a smattering of other languages. Several years ago, a co-worker and I had radios to communicate on a two-level parking garage. We were probably the only people for 1,000 miles speaking Ukrainian on 154.2 MHz. He was from the Ukraine and their language is just like Russian, of which I learned some from a friend years earlier who spoke 7 languages and she taught Russian at SMU in Dallas. I like languages. And if we reach a language barrier in comunication, oh well, that sort of thing happens. The way you treat your dog in this life determines your place in heaven. - chukchi proverb

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• 07-03-2008 10:58 PM

  In reply to ron2

  lorib Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 2,529 Points 0

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact I have a degree in Spanish and use it every day at work.  I have NO problems with the instructions, etc. since I can read both languages However, studies have shown that people learn another language  faster if they continue to read in their native language, so don't gripe about the Spanish collection in your local library.  90% of our check outs to Hispanic adults are the English learning tools they need to get along in this country. Most folks try very, very hard to learn another language. FWIW, they are very appreciative that there are three of us who speak Spanish at the library to help them. Also, most of the Hispanic adult's computer usage is to obtain a food handler's card. Yes, they are learning so they can serve YOU and serve your food in a safe, healthy manner.

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• 07-03-2008 11:49 PM

  In reply to lorib

  rwbeagles Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW, TX Posts 14,543 Points 2,025	Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact yep I also have to wonder...my bottles of shampoo also have French on them, and sometimes even some Chinese(?) characters....but I suppose that's not annoying. I wonder why that is...lol. Gina H. dog.community Moderator "But my dreams...they aren't as empty, as my conscience seems to be."-The Who
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• 07-03-2008 11:52 PM

  In reply to lorib

  SalemsMom Joined on 10-19-2007 Western Maryland Posts 770 Points 95

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact It doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I wish schools would start teaching spanish in early elementary school and then offer the choice of a 3rd language once the kids have been through enough spanish to get by. It is so much easier to pick up as a small child (how many of you remember numbers in Spanish and German from Sesame Street?), and I think it would give the kids an anvantage later in life. In most of the other countries I have visited the people are fluent in multiple languages. Throughout Europe many of the countries even have english menus available in restaurants. I wish I was fluent in languages. I know basic spanish, french and german, but it's really only enough to get by, not have a conversation. In Germany I had a conversation with a man on a train (in English), and he apologized the whole time for his poor english, but compared to my German he was basically perfect. Honestly, he had a better handle on our language then some high school kids I've spoken with lately.

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• 07-04-2008 9:20 AM

  In reply to BCMixs

  Cita Joined on 12-13-2006 CT Posts 4,392 Points 735

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact BCMixs: It bothers me that I need to continue to struggle to get a handle on Spanish to get a job in my chosen field because of the growing population of hispanic crime victims.  It bothers me because I've been studying it for some time now, spent lots of $$$ on different programs and classes and I still SUCK!!!    sillysally: I realize that learning a new language is a challenge, but seriously, it's not like going from Spanish to English is the end of the world. Some people learn languages more easily than others. For example, I knew a wonderful woman in CA who was an immigrant, and made a living cleaning houses. (She was a legal resident, btw, if that matters to some people.) She spoke barely any English at all, though she could understand a few words. She worked very long hours to support her 2 children, but even so made time to go to the free English as a Second Language classes offered in the area - she went diligently to those until her brother fell deathly ill and she needed to work more hours to help support him. She got ESL workbooks and tapes. She tried to get her children to teach her. After many years of this, she just gave up. She learned very, very little, despite trying very, very hard, and she had neither the time nor the money to invest in expensive private or semi-private classes. Her formal education in Mexico stopped in 5th grade, by the way. Although she spoke Spanish fluently, her written grammar and spelling were awful. So, why do we have "press 2 for Spanish"? In 2005, the US had the 3rd largest population of Hispanic people in the WORLD (second only to Mexico and Columbia). Our Hispanic population is our largest minority population (at least it was in 2006, guessing it hasn't changed). 15% of our country's entire population is Hispanic. Spanish speakers constitute about 1 in 8 residents of US households. (source: http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/010327.html) As many have mentioned, when I visit another country, I'm incredibly grateful for instructions in English, particularly for confusing things like automated telephone menus. I'm fluent in Spanish, and yet while I was living in Spain I had a terrible time with the "press 1 for..." types of instruction in Spanish. I would have gladly "pressed 3 for English," and been thankful for the choice! And most of the shopkeepers there would answer my questions (asked in Spanish) with detailed answers (in English). I agree in an ideal world everyone would speak the predominant language of the country where they live. Heck, in an ideal world, everyone would speak every language. But that's not always practical, and I don't think it's any reason to take offense.

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• 07-04-2008 9:41 AM

  In reply to Cita

  sillysally Joined on 09-10-2007 Indiana Posts 3,376 Points 0

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact Cita: BCMixs: It bothers me that I need to continue to struggle to get a handle on Spanish to get a job in my chosen field because of the growing population of hispanic crime victims.  It bothers me because I've been studying it for some time now, spent lots of $$$ on different programs and classes and I still SUCK!!!    sillysally: I realize that learning a new language is a challenge, but seriously, it's not like going from Spanish to English is the end of the world. Some people learn languages more easily than others. For example, I knew a wonderful woman in CA who was an immigrant, and made a living cleaning houses. (She was a legal resident, btw, if that matters to some people.) She spoke barely any English at all, though she could understand a few words. She worked very long hours to support her 2 children, but even so made time to go to the free English as a Second Language classes offered in the area - she went diligently to those until her brother fell deathly ill and she needed to work more hours to help support him. She got ESL workbooks and tapes. She tried to get her children to teach her. After many years of this, she just gave up. She learned very, very little, despite trying very, very hard, and she had neither the time nor the money to invest in expensive private or semi-private classes. Her formal education in Mexico stopped in 5th grade, by the way. Although she spoke Spanish fluently, her written grammar and spelling were awful.  I understand what you are saying, but that is simply one of the challenges that people have to face when moving to another country.  Most immigrants I know didn't come over here because there lives at home were fantastic--they came over with little money, little education, and no English.  However, if they are not Spanish speaking and want a job outside of some of the tight knit communities in large cities, they *have* to learn the language, whether it is convenient or not.  The Cambodian gentleman I work with was fleeing horrible things when he left his country and had nothing to start with.  Right now he works 8am-4pm and then leaves and goes to a custodian job after 11 pm every day.   "Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

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• 07-04-2008 10:51 AM

  In reply to sillysally

  denise m Joined on 12-06-2006 Toronto Canada Posts 1,124 Points 70

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact  I think the majority of immigrants do their very best to learn English. It is in their best interest to do so. However it does take time and although they may be able to get by with a limited English on the street or in their job, when it comes to accessing information on health, education, legal and social programs etc. it is important that they are able to clearly understand and be understood.

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• 07-04-2008 11:18 AM

  In reply to denise m

  BCMixs Joined on 01-10-2008 Virginia Posts 1,149 Points 25

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact This got me thinking last night.....  How many manicurists can speak to you?  They chatter away in whatever asian language they are speaking but if you looked at them and said "Your head is on fire" they'd smile and nod.  I don't hear nearly as many people complaining about THAT (or questioning their status) as they do the hispanic population.  I think hispanics are unduly focused on because of the illegal immigration issue.  My ex ran a plastics plant that employed all manner of asian immigrant.  Their safety signs had to be printed in 26 (no lie!) asian languages!!!  They ran classes for all the workers teaching them english and helping them with immigration paperwork, etc.  I've never heard of anything like that being done for hispanic workers at Purdue. Flame away.  "I wonder what goes through his mind when he sees us peeing in his water bowl" Penny Ward Moser Save a life, make a shelter pet part of your family.

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• 07-05-2008 1:29 AM

  In reply to BCMixs

  sillysally Joined on 09-10-2007 Indiana Posts 3,376 Points 0

  Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact BCMixs: This got me thinking last night.....  How many manicurists can speak to you?  They chatter away in whatever asian language they are speaking but if you looked at them and said "Your head is on fire" they'd smile and nod.  I don't hear nearly as many people complaining about THAT (or questioning their status) as they do the hispanic population.  I think hispanics are unduly focused on because of the illegal immigration issue.  My ex ran a plastics plant that employed all manner of asian immigrant.  Their safety signs had to be printed in 26 (no lie!) asian languages!!!  They ran classes for all the workers teaching them english and helping them with immigration paperwork, etc.  I've never heard of anything like that being done for hispanic workers at Purdue. Flame away.    Actually, when I used to get my nails done I deliberately would go to the men in the shop, because at least at that place, they actually could carry on a conversation.  Nearly all of the women except for the one who ran the shop could speak only the words absolutely necessary to do their jobs, and I never felt completely comfortable with that.  There were a few instances where I wanted to ask them something about what they were doing and could not due to the language barrier.  In this area is is not uncommon when women discuss nail places to hear someone say "Oh yeah, and they actually speak English there." Coming from a manufacturing background, I can understand why a company with 26 different languages being spoken would want to get everyone on the same page by providing English classes--it's just a hell of a lot easier than finding 26 different people to translate important info, not to mention finding people to communicate things on the various shifts, etc.  Spanish is one language.  All you would really need is a few key bilingual management people and you're set.  I would be willing to bet if the factory in question were entirely Korean and there were some managers fluent in Korean, that there would be less effort put into teaching everyone English.    "Some men aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

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• 07-05-2008 3:51 AM

  In reply to sillysally

  lorib Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 2,529 Points 0	Re: This is the U.S.A. - English, please Reply Contact I do my own nails, so I guess I can chatter away at whatever language I wish!
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