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Is a Training collar the way to go??

Last post 06-10-2008 8:30 PM by Workingdoglover. 21 replies.
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  • 06-02-2008 8:17 PM

    • brandy76
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    Is a Training collar the way to go??

    I'm searching for a private trainer & I spoke to one who said he works with a training collar not a chocker.  I have an 11month old cockapoo who's only 13lbs.  Will this be too drastic for her??

     He equated the training collar to a person tapping another person to get their attention.  I told him my main problem is her lunging at everything on walks, even after giving her quick tugs with her regular collar.  And he said that she needs a training collar.

     Here's his website: http://www.k9unlimited.com/

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  • 06-02-2008 9:13 PM In reply to brandy76

    • jenns
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    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    It depends on what he means by a 'training collar'.  You say it is not a choke collar, so what is it?  My trainer uses the terms training collar and choke collar interchangeably.  I would not recommend a choke collar for a small dog, there is too much of a danger of tracheal damage.  I would start with an Easy Walk Harness for pulling on walks - http://www.petexpertise.com/item--Easy-Walk-No-Pull-Harness--easy_walk_harness.html, along with rewarding your dog with treats when she  is not pulling.

    Zoe - 3 year old chocolate and tan miniature dachshund

    Zack - 8 month old toy manchester terrier

    Ally - 9 year old black and white domestic shorthair cat



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  • 06-02-2008 10:50 PM In reply to brandy76

    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    I'm going to assume that you're talking about a pinch/prong collar?  If so, I really don't think its necessary.  The only thing I generally use prong collars for is protection training, precise heel work, and BIG pullers (as in, horrible pullers that are huge dogs, and I generally will recommend a no-pull harness first). 

    Since you are probably able to control the dog when she pulls (even though its annoying), I'd just suggest some simple training.  Instead of putting her on a prong (which is a quick fix for pulling...it doesn't generally transfer to a regular collar unless you actually do training with the prong), just try this when you're walking her (meaning anywhere, anytime, ALL the time): 

    Every time she pulls, stop.  Just stop and wait for the leash to become slack, then start walking.  As soon as she starts pulling again, you stop again.  I know this is majorly annoying and time consuming, but if you stick with it, it WILL work.  And then you can walk your dog on any kind of collar you want.  It doesn't have to be a pinch/prong collar or a no-pull harness.  ;)

     

     

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  • 06-03-2008 7:19 AM In reply to Workingdoglover

    • mrv
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    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    Something to consider other than private instruction is a good obedience club.  You can get great results, less money, and the training sessions have lots of distractions which is what you want your dog to be able to deal with anyway.  I checked out the site and it is in Northern NJ.  Check these folks out.

     http://www.dogobedience.org/

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  • 06-03-2008 7:58 AM In reply to brandy76

    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    If I hear the word "tap" on association with the term "training collar", I'm thinking maybe the trainer is referring to an electric collar.

    I don't have an issue with the tool itself, but don't recommend it's use for everyday situations where social correction might be more appropriate...and work just as well.

    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" Albert Einstein

    "There's a fine line between fishing and standing on the bank looking stupid"
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  • 06-03-2008 8:25 AM In reply to mrv

    • brandy76
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    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    mrv:

    Something to consider other than private instruction is a good obedience club.  You can get great results, less money, and the training sessions have lots of distractions which is what you want your dog to be able to deal with anyway.  I checked out the site and it is in Northern NJ.  Check these folks out.

     http://www.dogobedience.org/

    Thanks for the link.  I did puppy kindergarden with her and then basic obedience at a local obedience club, which she didn't do well in.  She was 9-10months old in that obedience class & was so hyper that the loose leash walking around in a circle turned into her lunging & running after everyone.  The class setting just seems to be too much for her right now & I really wanted to focus on the heel & loosh leash walking in my neighborhood that's why I'm looking for private.  She already knows sit, sit-stay (45sec), down, stand, stand-stay, come, leave it.

    The obedience structor (at the local club) suggested a different kind of training collar, maybe it was called a slip metal collar (similar to this: http://www.dog.com/item/therapet-choke-collar-40-mm/ ).  I have to contact that private trainer and see if his idea of a training collar is the electrical one, which is what I DON'T want.

     *I originally said not a choke collar, but after looking at the link, I think that's what the priv. instructor was talking about.  Are those okay for a small dog?  Aren't these used on all dog sizes in the competition ring?

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  • 06-03-2008 8:28 AM In reply to Workingdoglover

    • brandy76
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    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    Workingdoglover:

    Every time she pulls, stop.  Just stop and wait for the leash to become slack, then start walking.  As soon as she starts pulling again, you stop again.  I know this is majorly annoying and time consuming, but if you stick with it, it WILL work.  And then you can walk your dog on any kind of collar you want.  It doesn't have to be a pinch/prong collar or a no-pull harness.  ;)

    I'm going to try this tip instead of the leash corrections I'm currently using, which makes her pull more.

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  • 06-04-2008 11:53 PM In reply to brandy76

    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    brandy76:

     *I originally said not a choke collar, but after looking at the link, I think that's what the priv. instructor was talking about.  Are those okay for a small dog?  Aren't these used on all dog sizes in the competition ring?

     I would not recommend a choke collar for a dog that pulls.  Chokes are fine for dogs that aren't pullers (I like them better than regular collars for "non-pulling" dogs because they can't slip them if some wierd situation arises), but for a puller, they're bad.  And all the leash corrections are good for their necks!  It's not particularly the size of the dog, but just the whole thing in general.  I'd much prefer you used a prong before using a regular choke collar on a dog that has a pulling problem. 

    I'm very glad you've decided to try just stopping every time she pulls.  It's definitely time consuming, but if you do it every time she'll figure out that pulling doesn't get her what she wants (which is the opposite of what has been happening in the past). 

    As far as group classes go....I would definitely recommend going, but some dogs just aren't ready for actual learning while in a group setting, so I think you're doing the right thing by trying to get the basics down really well first.  Definitely don't skip out on the group classes, though, because they are absolutely wonderful for socializing. 

    Good luck and I hope everything works out well for you!  Smile

     

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  • 06-05-2008 8:29 AM In reply to Workingdoglover

    • brandy76
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    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    Thanks workingdoglover.

    I won't get discouraged with classes, perhaps I'll try a different kennelclub.  The one I went to was a bit too much into getting your dog in the confirmation ring.  I got reprimanded so much because my dog wouldn't sit on cue when we stopped walking around (I always had to tell her to sit).  Is that something I need to work on for everyday life the whole having my dog stop/sit everytime I stop along our walks?

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  • 06-05-2008 8:42 AM In reply to brandy76

    • Liesje
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    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    brandy76:

     *I originally said not a choke collar, but after looking at the link, I think that's what the priv. instructor was talking about.  Are those okay for a small dog?  Aren't these used on all dog sizes in the competition ring?

     

    Dogs wear these in obedience and rally, but giving leash corrections gets you excuse, and the dog's collar or leash being tight means points off and possibly being NQ'ed.  In conformation, dogs typically wear very fine slip collars or martingales, but again, they are dogs that have been trained to gait and stack.  The slip collar is used b/c it "disappears" on the dog so it doesn't break up the look of the dog and interfere with the coat or judging. 


    My Blog - http://24ft.dutchbingo.net
    My Site - http://liesrosema.com
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  • 06-05-2008 8:43 AM In reply to brandy76

    • Liesje
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    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    brandy76:

    I won't get discouraged with classes, perhaps I'll try a different kennelclub.  The one I went to was a bit too much into getting your dog in the confirmation ring.  I got reprimanded so much because my dog wouldn't sit on cue when we stopped walking around (I always had to tell her to sit).  Is that something I need to work on for everyday life the whole having my dog stop/sit everytime I stop along our walks?

     

    That's actually opposite of what people want for the conformation ring.  I wouldn't worry about it if it's not a priority to you.  I have to use it, b/c I want that behavior from Kenya when we stop and also for Schutzhund obedience it is expected. 


    My Blog - http://24ft.dutchbingo.net
    My Site - http://liesrosema.com
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  • 06-05-2008 10:24 AM In reply to brandy76

    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

      I told him my main problem is her lunging at everything on walks, even after giving her quick tugs with her regular collar.

    Is she lunging at everything or pulling?  Two different things to me.  I have a dog that lunges and another dog that pulls.  The lunger needed remedial counter-conditioning and desensitization to other dogs to stop lunging at other dogs.  The puller, well she just needs more work with walking on a leash nicely and I've just been too busy to work on it the way it needs to correct it, so I just deal with it.   

    Leslie and the kids..
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  • 06-05-2008 9:33 PM In reply to tashakota

    • Infiniti
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    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    I wouldn't go with the slip collar.  It sounds like your pup needs work on pulling and on-leash interaction.  Honor has recently taken to barking and lunging at other dogs, so we're in the middle of this work in progress as well.

    For the pulling: Everyone has given you great advice in "make like a tree" when your pup starts pulling.  This method really teaches the dog that pulling does not get them closer to the object/smell/sight that they desire.  This method can be long and pain-staking, but well worth it.  Even if it takes 10 minutes for you to reach the end of your driveway, be consistent and don't let up on the training.  To make things less stressful, I would definitely look into the Easy Walk harness (by Premier).  Every dog is different, but I've had GREAT results with Honor with the Easy Walk.  

    For the lunging: You'll first need to identify what your pup is lunging at (ie. bikes, kids, dogs, etc).  Then you need to begin the desensitization process that Leslie mentioned.  There's a couple ways to go about this, but the main idea is that you gradually introduce the stimulus to the dog at decreasing distances.  For instance, say that your pup lunges at dogs (Honor's problem).  We've been working on gradually approaching other dogs, first starting at a distance where the dog isn't reacting.  It's especially helpful if you have a friend or family member with a dog who isn't leash reactive, so they can assist you.  Say that your pup's comfortable distance is 50 ft.  You're going to want to praise and treat for quietness and attentiveness.  Gradually walk toward another dog.  The second that you see your dog tensing up (or showing other signs), make a turn away from the dog, and praise for quiet attention again.  It takes a while, but you'll gradually cut this distance down until your dog is comfortable meeting another dog on-leash.  The point behind this exercise is that the dog eventually learns that approaching the stimulus quietly means praise, treats, good things, etc.

    Another method that has REALLY helped Honor is what I term the "hide behind the fixture" technique.  This is especially helpful when you're having problems in a training class.  To illustrate it, I'll just explain what I'm doing with Honor, if that's okay.  When Honor starts barking repeatedly and pulling toward another dog in class, I'll first try to regain her attention, but if that doesn't work, we leave the ring and go into an adjoining bathroom or hallway.  By removing the stimulus, she can regain focus, but she's also picked up on the fact that if she goes barking-nuts, all of the fun stops.  Honor's problem is that she DESPERATELY wants to greet every single dog she meets, but she's having a hard time accepting that she can't do that all the time.  When she gets reactive, we leave the situation.  After she calms down enough to perform simple commands, we'll re-enter the training ring, and I click and treat for quiet and calm behavior.  

    You can also use this pretty effectively if you have a Petsmart or Petco with a training class in your area.  When Honor was first learning that dogs=calm, we would work on approaching the training ring of other dogs, gradually desensitizing with the added bonus of having other aisles handy to utilize if she got too crazy. 

    I too would recommend looking for a good positive-reinforcement training group.  A good trainer will willingly discuss your training issues and goals with you, and I think that your pup would benefit from the socialization aspect of a group class.  And as for teaching an automatic sit when you stop, I wouldn't worry about that until you've got the pulling thing resolved a little bit.  It's a very good behavior to teach eventually, but I might break things up into baby steps for now.

    Sorry about the novel-length of this, but I'm in the middle of this sort of thing now, so it's fresh in my mind.  Good luck, and feel free to PM me if you want to talk more. 


    Lisa and:
    Honor - Alaskan Klee Kai
    Nike - Shetland Sheepdog
    Dubby - Holland Lop
    Max - Mini Lop
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  • 06-05-2008 9:40 PM In reply to Infiniti

    • jenns
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    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    Infiniti:

    For the lunging: You'll first need to identify what your pup is lunging at (ie. bikes, kids, dogs, etc).  Then you need to begin the desensitization process that Leslie mentioned.  There's a couple ways to go about this, but the main idea is that you gradually introduce the stimulus to the dog at decreasing distances.  For instance, say that your pup lunges at dogs (Honor's problem).  We've been working on gradually approaching other dogs, first starting at a distance where the dog isn't reacting.  It's especially helpful if you have a friend or family member with a dog who isn't leash reactive, so they can assist you.  Say that your pup's comfortable distance is 50 ft.  You're going to want to praise and treat for quietness and attentiveness.  Gradually walk toward another dog.  The second that you see your dog tensing up (or showing other signs), make a turn away from the dog, and praise for quiet attention again.  It takes a while, but you'll gradually cut this distance down until your dog is comfortable meeting another dog on-leash.  The point behind this exercise is that the dog eventually learns that approaching the stimulus quietly means praise, treats, good things, etc.

    The only problem with this is that it only works if you are *always* outside of the 'red zone' in which your dog will react. Every time you end up at a distance where your dogs reacts, you start back at square one.  This is impossible in my situation since I live in a townhouse develpment and every time I walk out my door to take the dogs out to do their business, we are in the red zone.  I have to admit that I have had some success using a squirt bottle filled with water when he is reacting, and giving high value treats when he isn't.  I'm sure many might not approve of this approach but it's the only thing that has worked for me (won't work if your dog likes water though!).  I would not do this if your dog has fear issues, though.

    Zoe - 3 year old chocolate and tan miniature dachshund

    Zack - 8 month old toy manchester terrier

    Ally - 9 year old black and white domestic shorthair cat



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  • 06-06-2008 11:47 AM In reply to jenns

    Re: Is a Training collar the way to go??

    punishing reactive dogs while they are reacting, whether with a collar correction or a squirt bottle or a firm scolding, makes the problem worse. The gradual desensitization program works for lungers regardless of what the real cause of the problem is- fear, aggression, desire to meet other dogs.

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