Aggressive changes in an elderly dog?

• 05-27-2008 1:28 PM

  grab01 Joined on 09-10-2007 middle of the desert Posts 855 Points 0

  Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact Legend has always been a very laid back guy in all situations.  Living with a very bratty yorkie, he never paid any mind to Julian's inappropriate outbursts.  In the past month and a half, he's been much more reactive. If Jules growls at him (and yes, that is inappropriate..we work on Julian's inflated ego constantly..I think he's on eternal grounding) where before he'd walk away, now he jumps in and we end up with a full battle.  I think I've had to break up more battles in the past month and a half than I have in all of his 12 years. I am not sure if it has to do with his not seeing/hearing as well..I tend to think so. He also doesn't want to stop when I grab him. I end up having to put him in the bathroom or outside until he calms down. Most of the time, all is well, but it's a matter of constant watching to make sure that there is no outburst.   His behavior to people is unchanged. Still the same goofy guy.  Also, when I pull him back, he's never tried to redirect it towards me, even though I've had to fish around in his hair to find his collar.    I'd think senile changes, but he's not confused in other aspects.  He's had basic bloodwork..nothing sent out.

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• 05-27-2008 1:34 PM

  In reply to grab01

  rwbeagles Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW, TX Posts 14,588 Points 2,025

  Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact What's the pack order in your house among the dogs...was he high ranking in younger days? Many times as dogs age they become aware they will not be considered as much of an asset to the pack as before. They feel their own mortality it seems to me. Little things they'd let pass they overreact to...it's like they become hypersensitive to slights...in part because they are paranoid about their spot. Some can step down gracefully...and others have a really rough time. Now this is only my experience but the addition of the puppy might also have something to do with it. See above for why. Lastly I'd get him checked over with an elder exame encompassing eyes, ears, thyroid, and arthritis checks...any pains or aches of age can make older dogs very cranky and protective of the "bubble" around them. Gina H. dog.community Moderator "But my dreams...they aren't as empty, as my conscience seems to be."-The Who

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• 05-27-2008 1:50 PM

  In reply to rwbeagles

  Dog_ma Joined on 06-25-2007 San Diego County, California Posts 1,333 Points 795

  Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact rwbeagles: Many times as dogs age they become aware they will not be considered as much of an asset to the pack as before. They feel their own mortality it seems to me. Little things they'd let pass they overreact to...it's like they become hypersensitive to slights...in part because they are paranoid about their spot. Some can step down gracefully...and others have a really rough time.   Thank you!!! This explains what has been going on with Sasha and puzzling me. She has always been touchy and anxious (since she was a puppy) but in the last year she's been increasingly cranky and over-reactive.  She'd only 6, but I've noticed she has less get up and go (would rather have long walks than go running) and I bet she's being snottier because she's moving out of her physical prime.   "Are you a dog trainer?" "No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night."

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• 05-27-2008 1:52 PM

  In reply to rwbeagles

  grab01 Joined on 09-10-2007 middle of the desert Posts 855 Points 0

  Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact He really never had a pack order, at least that I was able to notice. I'm sure there was some sort of order, but it was subtle enough that it went unnoticed. He and my departed Basset were a few years apart in age, and they just coexisted nicely..no one went in or out first, never any grumbles, and so on.  He's never shown any interest in asserting authority with any of the pets.  When Jules was added 6 years ago, both he and my Basset kind of ignored him.  Jules is one of those very bossy terriers (he's a very anxious dog, so lashes out at other pets) and would always growl and snap at them (hence why he's forever on NILIF) but they would ignore him andhis outbursts.  Even after my Basset passed on, he and Jules' relationship seemed to stay the same.   I did think of the puppy, but his starting battles with Jules more often started over a month and a half ago..I'd even mentioned it to the vet at work.  So, while it may be part of the contribution, I think there is something else underlying. He'll definitely be getting some bloodwork.

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• 05-27-2008 1:53 PM

  In reply to rwbeagles

  calliecritturs Joined on 09-10-2007 Central Florida Posts 6,990 Points 1,955

  Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact Absolutely EVERYTHING Gina said -- have them pay particular attention to teeth, thyroid (I'd have them send it out to Michigan State -- they are SUPER good with things that influence thyroid like age, medication, etc.) and anything else -- it's likely some *thing* that is causing him to be excessively sensitive. Also -- everything Gina said about pack order -- you may have to stop and sit back and re-examine how things are handled -- keep a journal on this -- go back over the situations as they've happened -- what position is everyone in, what time of day is it, what was laying around (toys, food, family just 'chilling', or whatever).  What was Legend doing -- sleeping?  WHERE?  his own bed?  next to a family member?  etc.  What changes have occurred?  any newbies?  any human schedule changes, etc.?? You may just plain have to keep these two dogs completely and utterly separated -- permanently.  We recently had to change a crating situation -- I had both Luna AND Billy getting more than a bit annoyed at Kee Shu -- she's as dim as they come, frankly.  She's sweet, but she can get REALLY obsessive/compulsive about things and I saw both dogs, at completely different situations/scenarios get growly with her.  She's so much smaller that I dared not leave things as they were.  She's always hated to be crated alone -- before she came to me she lost her brother that she'd been with all her life.  she WANTS to be with another dog, particularly with a male -- she WANTS to *not* be alone.  So I'd always let her be in with Billy ... and then later with Luna.  Frankly, both of them got fed up with her -- they never hurt her, but I could tell it was TIME FOR A CHANGE so we got back out the smaller crate for her and that was the end of the nonsense. She was driving them nuts while we were gone ... and they did marvelously at not erupting at the time, but it had them both edgy and then when the slightest provocation occurred it push the envelope.  She's gotten used to being alone (they're all in the same room) and she's fine with it and the other two have resumed happy happy relations with everbuddy.  IN fact, I now see them both take time occasionally to lie down next to her.  It's as if they *know* she needs that contact ... So it may actually have its roots in something completely different -- but think it thru and see if you can identify a time when things go awry.

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• 05-27-2008 2:00 PM

  In reply to calliecritturs

  grab01 Joined on 09-10-2007 middle of the desert Posts 855 Points 0

  Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact In the past month I've removed anything that may cause Jules to snark and, thus, get a reaction.  They never, ever, have chewies out...all are seperated.  Jules has height issues, so I try and keep him off of things (he isn't to be on couches, so he will jump up on his toybos) so he won't growl.  It's always more of an issue of watching Jules..since Jules is prone to growling at him for seemingly no reason. (the wind blew the wrong way, he was breathing too much, etc)  If I can reduce that, I can reduce the chance Legend will snark back. They are always seperated when I'm gone, though.  I've no idea what caused the issue with Ginger..she is not authorative or bossy at all. I have a feeling she got stepped on, snarked at him, and he snapped back, causing her to jerk back and whop her jaw.  While I obviously cannot say for sure as I was on the other side of the door, he's very drooly and she had none on her. ETA: not making excuses..it was not acceptable either way. And we'll certainly be seperating him from both dogs when we're gone

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• 05-27-2008 2:23 PM

  In reply to grab01

  janet_rose Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW area, Texas Posts 3,616 Points 330

  Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact I would request a thyroid panel done at MSU (Michigan State University) or Hemopet to get their result interpretation (adjusted for age and breed) and dosage advice.  Both are doing thyroid research. Ask for the 6-way test for T3, T4, free T3, free T4, T3 autoantibodies, and T4 autoantibodies. It gives a full picture of the thyroid function and avoids the possibility of having to do another blood draw to get the additional values. When the autoantibodies are present, measurement of T4 and T3 levels will be spuriously high. Note that in addition to lab costs, your vet will naturally charge for drawing the blood, preparing it, and shipping it. Optionally, the vet may agree for you to do the mailing if, for instance, you want to take the package to the shipper immediately. You might consider trying the dietary supplement Cholodin. Many holistic vets in the US carry it as does www.entirelypets.com. Arthritis, joint pain, lameness, and other age-related problems may be linked to the reductions in the body's natural hyaluronan levels. These age-related problems include doggie senility and vestibular syndrome.

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• 05-27-2008 7:26 PM

  In reply to janet_rose

  grab01 Joined on 09-10-2007 middle of the desert Posts 855 Points 0	Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact I'll look into the supplement and testing, in the meantime it will be constant supervision. The issue today resulted in Ginger having a broken jaw. We have an appointment with the referral center for Friday to see about plating the jaw
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• 05-27-2008 10:22 PM

  In reply to grab01

  Foxysox Joined on 11-21-2007 Posts 132 Points 55	Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact Something I just learned is thyroid. Kale is .7 which isn't that low, but still low. He's grumpier and has several diffferent symptoms of hypo.... at least it's not cushings.....
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• 05-28-2008 12:41 AM

  In reply to Foxysox

  grab01 Joined on 09-10-2007 middle of the desert Posts 855 Points 0

  Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact I was doing a head to toe check and found several more areas with foxtails embedded in his skin causing sores (this in spite of myself, the vet and the groomer all looking last week) Perhaps grasping at straws, but could cause some recent grouchiness? Spent 40 minutes looking for more (many were in armpits and hidden nooks) and couldn't find anything else.

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• 05-28-2008 4:55 PM

  In reply to grab01

  sandra_slayton Joined on 09-10-2007 Ingleside, Texas Posts 3,173 Points 0	Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact My very first thought was thyroid.  Lots ofgood suggestions here.
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• 05-28-2008 9:10 PM

  In reply to sandra_slayton

  willowchow Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 6,162 Points 300	Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact I really hope Legend will be OK.  Willow is also changing-getting worse with things she was once tolerant of.  The groomer just today was telling me that his experience with chows is that they become more difficult as they age.  He's got others besides Willow that are the same way too.
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• 06-21-2008 7:30 PM

  In reply to willowchow

  grab01 Joined on 09-10-2007 middle of the desert Posts 855 Points 0

  Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact I wouldn't really call him difficult so much, since humans could yank him around by his nostrils and he'd not bat an eye   No more issues, but we have been monitoring his free time with Julian, since he seems to have a problem dealing with Jules' snarkiness.  They do have free time together, as we do not want them to get the idea that they have to be seperate. But if Jules is too keyed up, we seperate.  Legend has been excellent with the pup..really tolerant. He corrects if need be, but he does it completely appropriately. Waiting on the thyroid results. His blood panel came back pretty normal..he did have a barely elevated liver level and a low hematocrit, so we're rechecking those in a month or so.  We did put him on meds for cognitive disfuntion due to some recent (after the earlier incidents) very odd behavior. He began having accidents and walking in them (this from a dog who normally won't step in puddles nor mud and loathes being dirty), he will wander off mid-eating and has lost three pounds, he still wakes at 4:30-5 am and whines and whines, if he's confined he will now chew/scratch on the wall (normally he could care less about confinement..more opportunities to sleep, you know..) and, he has been climbing into the tub to sleep, which I would normally assume is a coolness issue, but our bathroom isn't the coolest area in the house. So, we're giving the pills a month or so. He's had no issues of side effects, etc from the meds so far. He's also on some meds for his arthritis, which has allowed him to move around much easier.  They thyroid results should be in this week sometime

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• 06-22-2008 7:55 PM

  In reply to grab01

  jessies_mom Joined on 09-10-2007 Indiana Posts 4,192 Points 40	Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact  I hope the meds  help him; sending good thoughts. He's a beautiful dog. Life isn't about waiting through the storm; it's about learning to dance in the rain. Janice
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• 06-22-2008 8:10 PM

  In reply to jessies_mom

  willowchow Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 6,162 Points 300	Re: Aggressive changes in an elderly dog? Reply Contact Oh, wow, that is odd behavior.  How old is Legend now?  His "real" behavior is very similar to Willow's--she jumps over puddles too.  Could this cognitive issue be what caused him to lash out like that?  Maybe he just didn't realize what he was doing?  Oh, the poor chow chow.
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