Hello, trying to pick a dog - Updated, Found my dog!

• 10-25-2009 2:33 AM

  ripsnorter Joined on 10-25-2009 Posts 11 Points 0

  Hello, trying to pick a dog - Updated, Found my dog! Reply Contact Hello all, I've been giving serious thought to getting a dog again, and feel it's a very important decision, on par with having a child. So, I've joined a few forums and would like some advice. I apologize if this is in the wrong section, if a mod would like me to move it, I'll be happy to repost. About myself and the living arrangement for my potential new partner. I'm 30 a year old guy, live alone on 10 fairly secluded acres in Western Washington. It's a mile drive down a private road just to get to a public road, so there shouldn't be too much of a chance of him getting hit by a car. I own my own business and work at home, so except for maybe one trip a week into town for the day, I'm pretty much around all day long. I grew up in a semi-farming area, and dogs weren't allowed inside. He'll be played with throughout the day though, with 1 to 3 hours of dedicated training, excercising and playing per day, plus spending probably 2/3s of the day with me, out in my shop with me, etc. At night he'll have a 40'x80' shop to sleep in, warm bed, and a kennel linked to it with a dog door for his outdoor needs. Most of the day he'll be able to run around at his leisure, most of the time with me, but he will be loose. I had a Black Lab for years that I trained, loved dearly, but who had two big problems that I couldn't break him of: He'd sneak away and roam to the neighbors, and he'd howl when I was away in town. The neighbors were close to shooting him if he ran off again. I realize that just about any dog will run off if left completely unattended, but I don't want to have to keep a dog in a kennel all day when I'm not constantly 100% focused on keeping him home. I'd like him to be able to play in the yard, but still know to stay at home. I'd like a breed that for the most part will stay at home and doesn't have a natural inclination to jailbreak. I also realize that every dog is different, even in the same breed, but certain breeds do have more of a reputation for straying and howling than others. Any recommendations on breeds I should look at? I'd love to get another Lab, but am worried about more problems with running and howling when I'm not home. I'm thinking perhaps a Rottweiler or an English Mastiff? Any other recommendations? I'd appreciate any advice! Thanks! ----- edit ----- Here he is! His name is Lincoln (Link for short) and he's a 7 month old Australian Cattle Dog / Australian Shepard mix.

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• 10-25-2009 7:26 AM

  In reply to ripsnorter

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 11,729 Points 1,020

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact Your first dog may have had "suburban dog syndrome."  Even if you live in a rural area, puppies need extensive socialization with other pups, dogs, and people, throughout the first year of life.  That keeps them from developing separation anxiety, or fears about novel situations. Dogs that run at large are always in danger - from even the occasional car, from coyotes, from people who would love to steal a dog, etc.  Roaming is often due to lack of training, and lack of neutering.  Intact male dogs roam.  So, if you get a male, neuter him and you shouldn't have that much problem.  I would not just leave a dog outdoors unattended.  That's asking for trouble.  Coyotes, thieves, cars, antifreeze puddles, stray packs, neighbors with guns, poison, etc. are just some of the hazards loose dogs encounter.  I'm sure that many of the dogs in kill shelters in the south got there because they were just let out the door and wandered into the wrong place.  Horrible to pay with your life because a human didn't have the sense to fence you in or put you in a kennel when they couldn't watch you. As to breeds, I think that a Lab (English style, not field style) is a great breed so long as you pay attention to socializing it, train it, and contain it.  Probably the best breed for you.  Rottweilers and Mastiffs require a savvy owner who will NOT let them roam free.  Also, in some areas, your homeowners insurance may get canceled for owning a Rott, which could force you to get rid of the dog if your home is mortgaged, or necessitate your joining an expensive insurance pool. Mastiffs bond well to their families, but can be intimidating to "intruders" and if your dog is not extensively socialized while young, could choose to think of a neighbor's child as an "intruder" - not what you want, I suspect. Think how your life may change in the next fifteen years.  Marriage, children?  If so, the Lab or other normally non-aggressive breed is a good choice.  I can't tell you how many times a guy has come to me devastated because the new wife is pregnant and the dog hates kids:-(((  Of course, your puppy should meet kids, even if you don't have any, to prevent problems with your own kids later or with visitors.   Any dog needs training and management when young.  So, if you just want a dog to fit the parameters you discussed initially, you might want to get an adult dog that already matches those qualifications.  Or, be prepared to do more work on the socialization and training than you did the last time.   If you can't bear to neuter a male, get a female and spay it - dogs of either gender are much less likely to get in that kind of trouble if they are sterilized. Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 20 1/2 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog In memory of Mike, please become an organ donor today. "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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• 10-25-2009 12:52 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  AgileGSD Joined on 09-16-2007 Posts 1,034 Points 65

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact  IME herding breeds are the least likely to roam far from home. They were meant for "farm life" and generally have a strong desire to stick around the house and their people. You have already gotten some good advice about the need for training and socialization. Herding breeds really need good socialization and early training or they may tend to be overly guardy or overly shy with strangers. The same would apply to Mastiffs and Rotts too though - big need for socialization and early training since they were bred to be guard dogs and are not breeds that I would allow to roam. Labs are a nice breed, I second the suggestion for English lines and certainly tend to be less guardy or reserved with strangers than herding or guarding breeds. But IME they tend to be a lot more likely to wander from home.   I don't suggest any dog be left to roam when no ones around, except working livestock guardians with a flock to watch over. Just too many things can happen when no one is around such as the dog may chase after prey and end up far from home or roaming dogs o(r worse wild animals )can get into a fight with your dog. It doesn't sound like that is your plan but felt I should add that as a FYI.

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• 10-25-2009 1:09 PM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  ripsnorter Joined on 10-25-2009 Posts 11 Points 0

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact Thank you very much for your reply, very well thought out and explained. As to my future status, kids are not even an option. I am in a relationship where it was long ago agreed that neither of us wanted kids, and I am going to have myself "fixed" soon. I appreciate the warning about homeowners insurance though, it was something I had not thought of or known about. I am very much in agreement about spaying or neutering, I just want a companion with guard dog being a distant second, and don't need to be sure he or she is papered or of a certain precise ancestry, especially as I do not plan on breeding them. I am looking now into adopting a slightly older pup. Somewhere from 6 months to a year or so old. I'm still not sure about it, but it would enable me to better find a dog that does not have nearly as much of a tendency to wander. I am trying to do as much research as possible as I want to be as sure as I can that any potential pup I get will have the most likelihood of adapting happily to the living situation here. Thanks for the advice on herding breeds, that's where I was leaning as well. I am surprised on other forums at the reaction I have received to an "outside farm dog". You are correct in that I don't want to just let the dog run loose whenever it feels like it, but I'd like to be able to go inside to the bathroom and not worry if it's wandered off or climbed the fence. Obviously that will take training and bonding, but different breeds are more disposed to wander as has been stated.

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• 10-25-2009 2:25 PM

  In reply to ripsnorter

  Cita Joined on 12-13-2006 CT Posts 5,630 Points 850

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact  My (admittedly limited) experience with "rescue" animals in their new homes is that they are less likely to wander far from home. Personally, I believe this is because they are grateful to have a home, and don't take it for granted, and so they choose to stay close. My personal feelings. I certainly wouldn't rule out a rescue dog, especially if you're thinking of getting a slightly older one. There are lots of breed rescues so you could still adopt a particular breed, if you wanted to. Many people are against them, but I think an electric fence might, with appropriate training, be a good option for you. There are a lot of negatives - they still require training to get the dog to respect the boundaries, they are not cheap, they do give the dog an electric shock if he tests the boundaries, they can fail or shortcircuit without you noticing, it will keep the dog more or less in but won't keep other animals out (so the dog may be in greater danger from predators, since he can't escape), and if the dog runs through the boundaries he's less likely to come back in because he will get shocked again. That said, I do know people who use them and find them helpful, combined with supervision. In my opinion, for large properties, an electric fence/collar is better than just trusting the dog not to stray. The key, of course, is there has to be training involved, too. But from your "want to go inside for a few minutes without worrying" example it sounds like an electric fence might be a good solution for you. A lot of people hate the idea of an "outside farm dog" because a lot of people use "outside farm dog" as an excuse not to train or care for their animals. It's sad, but outdoor dogs are less likely to receive basic care like vet treatments because many people keep the animals outside because they don't really care about them. IMO, as long as it is well cared for (gets the same amount of training and care as an "indoor dog," gets good food, has access to clean water and good shelter, etc.) and gets a decent amount of human interaction, a "farm dog" has a great life. In many places, "outdoor dog" = "no care/attention given to the dog," so a lot of people have a violent knee-jerk reaction to the idea. Don't take it personally! :)

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• 10-25-2009 3:11 PM

  In reply to Cita

  ripsnorter Joined on 10-25-2009 Posts 11 Points 0

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact Thanks a ton for your response, especially about the farm-dog attitude. I was honestly starting to feel like there was no one on any forum that really understood what a farm-dog is. I'm glad that's not the case. I know there are those that neglect "outside dogs", and it is very frustrating to see, but there are also those that neglect indoor dogs just as badly. (basically permanent crating, neglect in filth, etc) There's a house I drive by once in a while with a dog on a chain outside. Never let off it, fed then shoved away and left alone again. Very frustrating to see. Growing up it wasn't at all uncommon to go out and sleep with our German Shepard. He was not allowed inside, but he was always waiting for us as soon as we opened the door to the carport, and we spent more time outside than in. We just viewed him as part of the family like a horse.. we couldn't let him inside the house either, but he was darned sure cooler and more welcome than my brother! :) I'm getting pretty interested in a shelter/rescue dog now. There are also a lot of people that with the recession are finding they are unable to take care of their dogs. I'd like to be able to take one in that would love a big place to run around on and chase a few rabbits between playing tag/wrestling/fetch/staring contest/who's truck is it/etc. with me.

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• 10-25-2009 6:10 PM

  In reply to ripsnorter

  tiffy Joined on 09-10-2007 Tacoma, Wa. Posts 2,490 Points 235	Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact  I think a Corgi will suit you well. They do bond closely with humans and will be destructive if left to their own devices. On the other hand, they don't wander and are very smart.
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• 10-25-2009 7:18 PM

  In reply to tiffy

  luvmyswissy Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 2,103 Points 25

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact I think a little older rescue dog is a good option!  My experience with rescues is that for the first two or three weeks they stick to you like glue and then once they are comfortable they start to show their potential to roam, so don't be taken and be sure to train from day one.  Good luck and I hope you recuse a simply wonderful dog. PS:  Electric fences work well - I have trained three very different, varying sized dogs on one and I love it.  But training is essential or they don't work.

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• 10-25-2009 7:50 PM

  In reply to ripsnorter

  AgileGSD Joined on 09-16-2007 Posts 1,034 Points 65

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact ripsnorter: Thanks a ton for your response, especially about the farm-dog attitude. I was honestly starting to feel like there was no one on any forum that really understood what a farm-dog is. I'm glad that's not the case.   It is very common on many forums for the regulars to kind of "gang up" on anyone new who isn't doing things the way they feel should be done. This forum is generally pretty open minded IME, more so than some others I am on/have been on. There area  alot of dogs who would very much enjoy that sort of life, some of mine included LOL ripsnorter: I'm getting pretty interested in a shelter/rescue dog now. There are also a lot of people that with the recession are finding they are unable to take care of their dogs. I'd like to be able to take one in that would love a big place to run around on and chase a few rabbits between playing tag/wrestling/fetch/staring contest/who's truck is it/etc. with me.  Not to sound discouraging but unless you have a county run dog pound that does no screening, it is extremely doubtful that a rescue will adopt a dog to you. Most are going to have the same attitude you have seen on other forums and will not allow you to adopt a dog as a "farm dog" (even breeds which were bred to be just that!). It really is rather ironic, especially with kill shelters that they would have attitudes like that but it is the norm. And you can expect to see that across the board - in both regular shelters and purebred rescue. The only purebred rescues that I hear of that will adopt to outdoor homes are Northren breed ones, such as Siberian Huskies or Alaskan Malamutes. Those breeds would not suit your needs at all - they don't do "stay in the yard" at all!  That isn't to say that you will have to buy a purebred puppy. There are plenty of dogs tbeing rehomed by their owners for a wide range of reasons including what you have mentioned. Those dogs are certainly in need of good homes and many will end up in shelters if their owners can't place them. Keep an eye out on Craigslist for herding breeds being rehomed. I would be hesitant to suggest getting a herding breed mix, unless it was pretty sure to be of two herding breeds because you may not get a herding breed attitude with a mix. ripsnorter: Growing up it wasn't at all uncommon to go out and sleep with our German Shepard.   A GSD (German Shepherd) could suit your needs quite well, if they are a breed that interests you. They don't tend to wander and are so very devoted to their people. You'll want to be careful as far as temperament goes, as some can be very fearful or overly guardy but they are common, so it won't be hard to find older puppies or young adults being rehomed.  It is an actually an advantage to get a dog from the owner because you will get to see exactly how the dog acts at home, in a familar setting.

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• 10-25-2009 7:59 PM

  In reply to ripsnorter

  stardancnminpin Joined on 09-10-2007 SE Texas Posts 815 Points 65

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact  As someone who grew up in the country, and still lives in the country, I beg you - please build a fence around a small portion of your yard. Not only for your sanity and safety of your pet, but for the sanity and safety of your neighbors (and their pets). There is nothing worse than having the neighborhood dog/pack come roaming around. We had to build a fence at a location we are renting due to the stupidity of our neighbors and their roaming dogs. Not only are they peeing on our cars, but also on our front door and the grill on the porch. Then add in that I am having to remove large piles of poo from my yard and I am not inclined to be nice to the neighborhood dogs. I don't mind picking up after my girls, but having to pick up huge, oozing piles of poo from other dogs is just beyond an aggravation. Not to mention, I can't enjoy my yard due to the neighborhood dogs coming around. I have small dogs, and when the neighborhood dogs aren't nice, then I can't relax and enjoy my dogs and the benefits of living in the country. Dogs are going to be dogs, and they will roam. Coyotes can get in to fenced yards and bait dogs to get out of their yards - we've read of both instances happening on this board. But a fenced yard will provide a measure of safety for your dog that is, in my opinion, something that a responsible pet owner should do. Protect your pet from roaming and getting hit by a car, picked up by a well meaning stranger, shot by an irate neighbor, the list goes on. Just because you have acreage in the country doesn't remove your responsibility to keeping your dog safe from being hit by a car or from bothering other people. Amy, Jezebelle, Keela, and Piper

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• 10-25-2009 9:08 PM

  In reply to stardancnminpin

  calliecritturs Joined on 09-10-2007 Central Florida Posts 10,877 Points 3,330

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact ripsnorter: I grew up in a semi-farming area, and dogs weren't allowed inside. He'll be played with throughout the day though, with 1 to 3 hours of dedicated training, excercising and playing per day, plus spending probably 2/3s of the day with me, out in my shop with me, etc. At night he'll have a 40'x80' shop to sleep in, warm bed, and a kennel linked to it with a dog door for his outdoor needs. Most of the day he'll be able to run around at his leisure, most of the time with me, but he will be loose. What everyone has said is pretty good -- but I'll try to give you a bit different slant.You know, it really doesn't matter ow far away "the road" is -- there are TONS of dangers, and there will *always* be the stray car coming down your road either to deliver something or just plain LOST.And know what?  That dog that has little experience with cars isn't less likely to get hit, but MORE.  Herders probably chief among them -- why?  Because dogs are essentially predators.  They want to "chase away" the interloper -- and he FIRST TIME a dog chases a car it instantly is completely rewarded -- because the danged thing RUNS AWAY from him!!  whooo hooo -- this works!!My basic point is I truly wish you'd open yourself a bit more.1.  The dog that does *not* sleep with you does NOT bond with you nearly as well.  Now, if you were a farmer with cows or sheep and were specifically training a herder to stay with it's "pack" (which typically becomes the flock or herd) that's something different.  But this dog will have pretty much NO ONE to bond *with* other than you.  Dogs are pack animals.  The *sleep* in packs.  That's how they bond.  That's how they live and care for each other.  But by simply saying "the dog will sleep in my shop" -- honestly you are setting yourself up for a dog that will roam.  Because there's nothing to keep it IN the shop.  especially with a dog door.Logic doesn't enter into it because that is HUMAN logic, not dog logic.  All he will see is that you don't want him around.  And if you don't socialize him extensively with other humans and other animals he's going to chase every single thing he sees just for the pure pleasure of chasing it.  He'll be a law unto himself.  This may well have been your prior experience -- bored dogs howl and bored dogs RUN (bored dogs also dig).2.  My honest and completely respectful suggestion is to tell you to buy a security system for the shop, and keep a dog IN the house with you.  If he's with you he won't howl.  A dog left alone outside or 'in' another building will simply be lonely and he will howl.  TWO dogs left in the same situation will simply run as a pack -- because there's no way to "explain" to a dog "your job is to stay here".   3.  Once more I'm going to emphasize what Spiritdogs said -- I understand you may not have a future that willingly holds children.  That's fine - to each his own.  HOWEVER -- there are people in this world, and particularly a dog that isn't kept at home with a sturdy fence AND one that has been socialized seriously -- that dog is going to see ANY human as an intruder.  A *small* human simply becomes prey.  Particularly as a point of being a responsible neighbor, and honestly, a business owner -- you likely are going to have to **contain** this dog.  Now that either means strining a hot fence that will be serious enough to keep the dog INside the fence, or you're going to have to invest ***SERIOUS*** time in training the dog (and I mean walking your property boundaries ON LEASH with the dog day after day after day and keeping the dog contained completely when you can't be with it -- and even that is a poor substitute. 4.  "invisible fencing" in this situation would likely not work.  The theory is that the dog will avoid crossing the “line” in order to avoid the jolt.  But it doesn’t prevent predators (human or otherwise) from crossing IN but once the dog begins to chase after something it’s supposed to “stop’ at the line.  The problem is that yes, the dog gets a mild jolt when it comes near or crosses "the line".  However, whether or not the potential jolt STOPS the dog depends on how badly the dog wants whatever it’s after.  And given that dogs are prey-driven **anyway** often the dog will run thru the jolt after whatever it was chasing.  However -- now is the tricky part.  Now you've got a dog running OUTSIDE your fence line -- and he's smart enough now to realize "If I cross that line *again* I'm gonna get zapped and I'll probably get in trouble for being outside because that lady saw me (or it’s far away anyway).  Sooooo I just won't go home!"That particularly comes into play when a dog isn't particularly bonded **to you** so it's not wanting to be with YOU enough to come home come heck or high water.  5.  Your own post said it all.  Big decision -- like getting a child.  But honestly -- **why** do you want a dog?  I’m not being sarcastic – it’s an honest question.  Do you want company?  A companion that is low key and doesn’t demand your attention away from your work?  Or … do you really just want a “guard dog” for your shop at night?  You can have a companion that is also a guard dog, but honestly – he’ll be a BETTER companion **and** guard dog IN the house with you.  Put up some motion detectors, and microphones so if anyone comes near then it’s going to attract attention at the house.  Most any dog who KNOWS you are concerned (and maybe go before bedtime to walk the perimeter around the shop and emphasize to the dog you’re “checking on things” and you could have a dog who will let you know if ANYTHING it awry out there. Remember – dogs can smell WAY more than we know.  A dog is going to know if there are interlopers on the property just by smell.  And if you set the dog up to know that what’s out there is important (and you take him with you to “check on things” etc) then he’s going to alert you if anything is wrong.  But if he barks ALL THE TIME anyway when he’s out there (because he’s bored and away from you) then that’s honestly no deterrent to thieves anyway – they’ll toss in some poison and by the time YOU realize it’s too quiet, they’ve come and gone.  But the dog who is bonded to you and yet well-trained will be quiet, will be motivated to stay AT home and will deal with intruders.  And remember – the bigger the dog (particularly the giant breeds like a mastiff) tend to have way shorter life spans.  In a few years they can become couch potatoes because they’re “old” by the time they are 6 or 7. I'm not trying to be nasty -- just want to ask you to maybe re-address your motives.  Not that they aren't 'good' -- but rather, what sort of dog you get may differ with your answer.  I mean, every junkyard has a dog -- one that barks ALL night long, is considered vicious and neighbors hate it.  Eventually someone tosses poisoned meat over the fence and a new dog "appears" later.  But they usually bark BECAUSE they are bored.  Lonely, and bored.  Bad combo -- often makes for either a noisey dog, a destructive dog, or an obsessed dog.

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• 10-25-2009 9:53 PM

  In reply to calliecritturs

  AgileGSD Joined on 09-16-2007 Posts 1,034 Points 65

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact calliecritturs: 1.  The dog that does *not* sleep with you does NOT bond with you nearly as well.   None of my dogs sleep with me. Some do sleep in our room, some don't but none have any bonding issues.   calliecritturs: Now, if you were a farmer with cows or sheep and were specifically training a herder to stay with it's "pack" (which typically becomes the flock or herd) that's something different.  But this dog will have pretty much NO ONE to bond *with* other than you.   Herding breeds generally do not have a problem bonding to their people, even rehomed ones and even ones without livestock. Really they are rather unique dogs in that they tend to have a strong urge to stay home. Not to say they would never roam because all dogs may but when presented with the chance to hang around the house or go explore, most want to stay home and hang out with their people or where their people are.   calliecritturs: But by simply saying "the dog will sleep in my shop" -- honestly you are setting yourself up for a dog that will roam.  Because there's nothing to keep it IN the shop.  especially with a dog door.Logic doesn't enter into it because that is HUMAN logic, not dog logic.  All he will see is that you don't want him around.   I'm pretty sure he said that the dog will be confined to the shop at night or when no one is around. The shop will have a dog door that opens into a fenced area. This person doesn't expect the dog to stay around the house 24/7 when no one is around but does expect the dog to be willing to "hang out" at the shop and around the property during the day while the people are outside and in the shop. A dog in this situation may actually get more quality time with their owner than many indoor dogs do, since most dogs are left at home alone while their owner is away at work. calliecritturs:   This may well have been your prior experience -- bored dogs howl and bored dogs RUN (bored dogs also dig).2.  My honest and completely respectful suggestion is to tell you to buy a security system for the shop, and keep a dog IN the house with you.  If he's with you he won't howl.  A dog left alone outside or 'in' another building will simply be lonely and he will howl.   I don't see where keeping a dog in the shop at night is any different than people keeping a dog confined in another part of the house at night. A lot of people have dogs who are crated at night or just sleep somewhere other than the bedroom that don't have problems with the dog howling. Dog ownership is not a "one size fits all" scenerio, there are a lot of variables that are workable even if it isn't what you would choose. Of course, I don't think anyone would suggest for a Pug or a Peke to be a farm dog :)

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• 10-25-2009 10:34 PM

  In reply to AgileGSD

  ripsnorter Joined on 10-25-2009 Posts 11 Points 0

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact Thanks! You hit all of the points I wanted to say, Agile. To clarify, my shop is probably 50 feet away from my dwelling. The only time the dog will be by itself are the very short hours when I'm asleep, and that will be less than the average amount of time that most people are at work, especially when you consider the time driving to and from work too. Plus, I have a girlfriend who also lives on the same road about a quarter mile from me that will be down here 24/7 playing with the dog (honestly, I will probably be replaced :P ). As to the shop - Agile is exactly correct. The shop is 20 x 40 now and will be expanded soon. There will be a small dog door leading into an enclosed and locked chainlink fence area that is an additional 20 x 40 or so. So, the dog will have an equal area outside to go the bathroom, run around etc. and a large warm shop that she can go in and out of when it's raining or when it's cold. The few times when I'm not around, or not having him or her by my side, she will be in the shop, locked. So, on average I estimate that this dog will spend at least 16, probably more, hours a day with me. I would like to see how many other people are able to spend that much time with their dogs on a daily basis and have them outdoors with them during that time running, playing, etc. Between myself, my girlfriend coming over and my dad who lives just next door, the dog will not be lonely. I think people that feel that farm dogs are neglected have honestly never spent much time on a farm. I honestly also don't think that over the past several 1000 years that all dogs were kept indoors all the time. It's just a modern, confused thinking. I think it's a little bit closed minded to think that a dog, especially a large active dog, can be happy kept indoors. A friend of mine got a husky once and kept it inside her small apartment while she went to work 10 hours a day. She said she came home one day and the apartment was torn up and couldn't believe how badly behaved the dog was and got rid of it. She also swears to this day that huskies are one of the stupidest (as in intelligence) breeds of dogs because of this experience. You never, ever hear of something like this happening in a rural area. Thank you very much, Agile, for the advice about shelters and outdoor homes. I hadn't considered that and I appreciate it.

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• 10-26-2009 3:35 AM

  In reply to ripsnorter

  Luvntzus Joined on 05-09-2006 Posts 4,201 Points 170

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact I don't think any rescue would adopt a dog to someone that will keep it outdoors. They have a lot of hoops to jump through- vet references, personal references, lengthy application, home visits, etc. Some turn people down for working full time or not having a fenced yard. I think you would have to go to a "pound" type of place where there are no questions asked.

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• 10-26-2009 8:25 AM

  In reply to Luvntzus

  AgileGSD Joined on 09-16-2007 Posts 1,034 Points 65

  Re: Hello, trying to pick a dog Reply Contact Luvntzus: I don't think any rescue would adopt a dog to someone that will keep it outdoors. They have a lot of hoops to jump through- vet references, personal references, lengthy application, home visits, etc. Some turn people down for working full time or not having a fenced yard.   Very sad that this happens under the illusion of "helping animals". Then the same shelters say they "have" to kill animals because there "aren't enough homes". I couldn't adopt from a shelter because I own intact dogs, which in the shelter world means I am an irresponsible owner. Doesn't make much sense at all.

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