Nutrition

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

24Pawsnclaws — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:00:08 GMT

I would NEVER cut out omega fatty acids. For the most part they are high in UNSATURATED fats , GOOD fats , not the kind that add to weight gain. However.... EXTRA VIRGIN COCONUT OIL actually encourages weight loss. You might consider substituting that for one meal a day.

http://www.organicfacts.net/organic-oils/organic-coconut-oil/health-benefits-of-coconut-oil.html

Another thing to consider is that your dog might need more PROBIOTICS. If there's a digestion problem and the dog is not able to appropriately utilize the nutrients from the food, that can cause weight gain. You might also consider DETOXING your dog with a homeopathic detox ( Newton's or similar products found online or at your local healthfood store ).

Adding unfiltered apple cider vinegar will also help with detoxing but is beneficial for digestion, tartar/plaque prevention, stone/crystal formation prevention, balancing pH and improving coat and skin as well as weight control and maintenance.

http://www.gomestic.com/Pets/Ten-Good-Reasons-to-Give-Your-Pet-Apple-Cider-Vinegar.30311

I'm not endorsing the product below... just giving an example of a Detox program for pets

http://www.nativeremedies.com/petalive/detox-plus-liver-cat-dog.html

Hope this info is helpful for you.

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

Chuffy — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:43:33 GMT

This is the part I don't understand - surely the carbs get released slowly, meaning they are more likely to be stored as fat? I didn't think pet dogs needed many carbs? Argh! Nutrition confuses me!

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

ron2 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:44:17 GMT

That's the tough part of overnutrition. Protein and fat not used get stored as fat. So, the carb filler might help. It's odd that the vet didn't find a metabolic problem. Anyway, good luck.

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

grab01 — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:49:57 GMT

For chews, check your feed store, if you have one locally. I buy a pretty large bag of mixed chews that contains moo tubes, bully sticks, those creepy pig nose things, etc for about $12. It varies with each bag, but most times it's full of bully sticks. I feed several chews daily with my crew (Grimmy needs things to chew on lest he find things he shouldn't) , and the bag still lasts several weeks. (and that's with four dogs)

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

tiffy — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 00:40:42 GMT

What? Did you not read her post?

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

Jordan S. — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 23:03:32 GMT

just feed more

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

Chuffy — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:03:30 GMT

chelsea_b:
I don't put it in toys or anything because she won't PLAY with toys.

Stuff it in a kong. It's not for PLAYING with - it's not really a toy in that sense. Ours just lie with it between their front paws and lick and chew and gnaw to get the food out. Put a dab of something sticky and stinky over the end to pique her interest.... a little smear of soft cheese or liverwurst. Or even a touch of PNB or canned food. I know you are thinking "argh! calories!!" but don't panic... you only need a teeny tiny bit and it's really only while she learns what to DO with the Kong.

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

brookcove — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:58:12 GMT

Tablespoon of oil? I use Seapet Gold - it's concentrated, so 1/4 tsp provides around 1200 EFA+DHA which is plenty for anything short of severe disease of some kind. 1/4 tsp is like, what, 25 kcals?

I've had terrific results with the Core RF. The only reason I switched was I hated to be paying so much for so few kcals. Yup, I'm cheap.

Check the prices at Best Bully Sticks. Six inch very heavy bullies are $1.09 plus shipping. Less than a can of good dog food. Heck, that's cheaper than a can of most grocery store brands!

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

chelsea_b — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:43:49 GMT

Right? Half a cup is like three bites for Cherokee. It's pathetic.

I don't put it in toys or anything because she won't PLAY with toys. The only toy I've found that she'll actually work to get food out of is the Twist-n-treat. Except she always loses it under furniture and I find it hours later with most of the food still in it, lol.

She won't work to get stuff out of a Kong. And she won't PICK UP the Kong. So basically if the food doesn't fall out when she noses it a bit, she's not interested. Even if she's hungry and freaking out about being fed, which I don't get. I tried a bunch of food-dispensing toys and she just doesn't care, and then Jaz destroyed them all... I think I still have the Twisty one somewhere, so maybe I'll start putting her food in there and hanging around while she eats. The only thing that sucks is then she's just eating dry food (I usually add water), which I don't really like, but oh well.

Yeah, I'll have to get her some chews or something. Bully sticks and moo tubes are "low calorie"? I would've thought they'd be pretty high. Either way they're pretty pricy, so they can't be a daily thing, but yeah, I can do that once in a while.

I'm thinking Core RF might not be such a bad idea. It's got 350 calories per cup vs. Orijen's 450, so if I still feed a cup a day, I can add almost a tablespoon of oil without upping her calories. I don't really like the 8.5% fiber, but if it's just temporary I guess it's fine.

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

grab01 — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:22:27 GMT

Ginger eats 1/4 c a day. Now, granted, she's a 10 lb dog, but it still looks pretty puny when you're pouring a wee 1/8c in a bowl twice a day.

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

tiffy — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:03:15 GMT

I am having the same issue with Tootsie. She was also on Orijen and only gets 1/3 of a cup 2x daily and no weight loss, actually gaining. She weighs 26 lbs and should be 24. I know 2 lbs, but on her (long and low) any weight gain really shows.Her being so hairy doesn't help either. I switched to Orijen sr. so we'll see. I also add fillers, like green beans or peas to her pm meal. She also gets Salmon Oil daily, which I'm not willing to eliminate. Too much coat improvement to stop.

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

jennie_c_d — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:33:21 GMT

Emma has to consume a LOT of food for a dog her size (I added it up the other day, and she's close to 800 calories, for a 5 yr old, 19 lb, lean dog). On the other hand, I have Ena, who's caloric needs are steadily decreasing. That is hard, for me! Ena's eating less than half of what Emma gets, and they're the same height (so to my mind, the same size), and Ena is only 16 months old. Nothing's wrong with her, it's just that Emma has issues. So, I started helping them eat slower. *I* feel better about Ena's tiny (in comparison!) meal, when it takes her 15 or 20 minutes to eat it. Sometimes, we do obedience for kibbles. Sometimes, they get a Kong, or a treat ball.

How do you feel about Wellness? I've heard nothing but great things about CORE RF.

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

brookcove — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:20:54 GMT

Wow, really? And she doesn't starve her fool head off the whole day?

Nope. She gets plenty of, as I say, low cal chewies that satisfy her, and she is bright and active and in great health. Her new vet is really convinced I'm confused about her age (impossible as I got her as a six week old puppy the year I got married).

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

Chuffy — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:15:36 GMT

Provided she is otherwise reasonably healthy, I would be *more* concerned about what she is missing out on with cutting the oil, than I would be about extra weight. You say you have no idea what breed or mix she is - she does look like a solid dog, but I haven't seen any pics of her so I could be way off the mark... but maybe SOME of that extra weight is muscle and she is not QUITE as overweight as you think she is? IME, weight *alone* is not a good indicator of body condition and many vets (around here anyway) are not great at recognising good/poor body condition.

Do you feed her meals in a bowl, or an interactive toy? *Slowing down* her eating is one way of helping her "feel full" for longer. (This works with humans too ) The best way is to pack a toy (like a kong) with her meal, freeze it and give it to her frozen. It will take her ages to eat it. On the other hand, even just putting an object in her bowl to force her to pick round it rather than gulp her food down will slow her down and make her feel more satisfied afterwards. This works great with Dell; feed her "normally" and she comes and gives you that "I'm starving!" look almost the moment she is finished. Give her the smae AMOUNT of food, but slow her down and she's fine and contented for the rest of the evening.

Re: This is getting absurd... (Chelsea)

chelsea_b — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:45:18 GMT

BEVOLASVEGAS:
Have you thought about adding something to her meals as a filler?

Yeah, but the only filler she'd eat is...meat. lol. She won't eat vegetables unless they're well-mixed with a lot of meat (preferably fatty ground beef). When I was homecooking, I had to really watch the ratio of meat:veggies because if it was just a touch veggie heavy, she wouldn't touch the batch of food.

calliecritturs:
That's why a lot of us have found Dr. Dodd's tests (and she's pretty close to you I think -- didn't you decide at one point to let her do a thyroid panel on Cherokee or am I thinking of someone else in CA?) or Michigan State's tests (which are also breed specific) to be a LOT more accurate.

Well here's what happened with that.
1) I found out that Dr. Dodds just uses Antech labs, the same as my vet.
2) I found the reference ranges Dr. Dodds uses, and she has one set for "adults", one for puppies and adolescents, one for "large breeds," one for "geriatrics," and one for sighthounds. No real "breed-specific" anything unless you have a sighthound (but since I have absolutely no idea what Cherokee is, breed-specific wouldn't be helpful anyway).
3) My vet said Dr. Dodds is pretty controversial among veterinary endocrinologists especially. They think she way over-diagnoses thyroid issues.
and 4) My vet told me that if Cherokee's bloodwork came back at all questionable for thyroid, we could start her on thyroid meds and just see if it did anything for her. When the results came back, we decided it wasn't low enough to medicate her.

I'll probably get her tested again the next time we go in (which looks like it's gonna be soon, since this growth next to her eye has decided to triple in size in the past week or two..sigh..) just to see if there's any changes. And maybe I'll do it through Hemopet next time, but this last time it just didn't seem worth it.

Chuffy:
Don't stop the fish oil and don't stress about the calories in it. There are "good calories" and "empty calories".

I know, but when the dog can apparently only have 450 calories a day, every calorie counts. Good calories, empty calories..it doesn't matter. Calories in vs. calories out. I'm seriously incapable of feeding her less than 1/2 cup of kibble at a time, so I can't be adding in oil that's so calorie-dense. But that's why I'm trying to figure this out, because I don't want to be cutting things out like that.

brookcove:
Are you using the Senior or the regular? Maggie is eating only 1/2 cup of the senior a day so that's in line with your dog - Maggie's 35 pounds, moderately active, healthy, and almost 16 years old.

Wow, really? And she doesn't starve her fool head off the whole day? Cherokee eats the adult stuff, because my sister's dog and she share the food, and Keva's only a year old. I dunno if senior would be okay for her? It doesn't really matter at this point, cause I think I'm gonna switch Cherokee off Orijen. I just don't know to what yet though.