Transition for foster question

• 07-21-2008 1:17 PM

  Pit_Pointer_Aussie Joined on 04-13-2007 Upstate New York Posts 1,571 Points 125

  Transition for foster question Reply Contact Our foster arrives tomorrow and is currently eating a mix of home cooking (rice, chicken and veggies) and Dad's dog food. I know, I am scratching my head also. He needs to lose weight, and I would like him to eventually transition to the household diet of: 50% kibble -- Orijen or other grain free. (If he can't go grain free, he'll have a different kibble) 25% canned 25% premade raw (dehydrated and/or frozen) My plan is to start him off with rice and kibble. I bought a small bag of Nutro Ultra (which is pretty mild), and a lot of pumpkin. We use probiotics for all the dogs, so that should help any upset tummy stuff too. I will slowly remove the rice from his diet, until he is on 100% kibble. Then I was planning to leave him on that for a bit to settle (like a week or 10 days), then start with the transition to Orijen. After that transition, he would stay on the Orijen a while, and we'd slowly start offering the wet and pre-made raw. This is assuming the transitions all go according to plan and he doesn't have any trouble with the Nutro or Orijen. I am wondering what others might do if they were in my shoes. What direction would you go in and why? Would you start with Dad's. I honestly can't bring myself to buy a bag of that stuff.

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• 07-21-2008 2:15 PM

  In reply to Pit_Pointer_Aussie

  Jewlieee Joined on 03-23-2007 MI Posts 7,743 Points 4,510

  Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact  I would not put a foster on anything but kibble because that is what 99% of pet people feed. It will make the transition easier when they go to a new home. When I first brought Abbie home, I bought a small bag of Science Diet ID (prescription/bland). This way she could easily transition from whatever she was eating to what I wanted to feed her. SD ID for about a week then mixed in some Blue and then some TOTW (what my dogs are on now). This is what most of our foster homes do as well. They get bland prescription and feed that for about a week then transition to something else. P.S. one thing to consider is what most pet owners will feed. That is why I had her on Blue for a while. I tried to pick something that is healthy, yet available at most big pet store chains. That way her transition to the new home would be easier.

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• 07-21-2008 2:53 PM

  In reply to Jewlieee

  brookcove Joined on 09-10-2007 Semora, North Carolina, USA Posts 5,635 Points 695

  Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact Most of my fosters eat half kibble half raw.  If I could afford it I'd do all homecooked but this does ensure that these dogs can go both ways in whatever situation they end up in.  I'm actually the reverse in fact.  The majority of goosedog people feed all-natural diets, usually raw.  Because I'm making increased demands on these dogs systems, I transition as fast as possible to a diet that will provide optimum energy and stress protection.  That's high-quality kibble and raw meaty bones for most dogs. So, usually I take in dogs that are either feed "whatever" in the shelter, or Kibbles-n-Bits in a pet home.  What I do is rest on day one, then feed a bland diet for three or four days, then use a topper especially formulated for gut health, then transition to the kibble and topper, then slowly add in the raw meaty bones.  After three weeks I go to whatever topper is on the menu rather than the special stuff. Custom homemade topper: 2 cans salt free, fat free chicken broth (or 3 cups homemade, fat skimmed off) 1 lb chicken (bland whole protein source) 2 lbs apples, peeled and cored (cooking variety best - pectin source) 1 lb (two large) baked sweet potatoes (fiber source) 2 lbs white potato, peeled and cubed (bland starch) I lb (1 medium) jicama, washed and cubed (FOS source) 1 tsp parsley 1 tsp Mrs Dash Enough water to cover all ingredients Four eggs (do not beat) 12 oz crushed pineapple (fruit enzymes and anti-inflammatory) Put all ingredients in a large stewpot or crockpot, cover, and simmer until all ingredients are fork-tender.  Add water as needed to avoid dry cooking (but allow to reduce to stew consistency).  Mash up chicken and vegetables (doesn't need to be exact, just get the large chunks broken up).  While still hot, add eggs and allow whites to cook until mostly opaque.  Yolks will still be yellow - that's good.  Add pineapple, stir, and after cool, freeze portions in greased muffin tins.  Pop them out when solid and bag up for use.  There should be around twenty servings, which will supplement one dog. Any substitutions can be made for known sensitivities.  Beef instead of chicken, rice instead of white potato, probably little chance of sensitivity to jicama, eggs and sweet potato can be left out, papaya instead of pineapple. I also send this topper home with new owners who will be transitioning to something substantially different than the food here.  Last fall I had a dog go home with a lady who exclaimed, "My dog's gonna eat better than me the next couple weeks!"  Becca Shouse: Irena Farm, Semora, NC Cord, Ted, Gus, Zhi, Maggie, Lynn, Lu, Min and Tully - and Sam! Waiting: Bubo & Ben http://irenafarm.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/irenafarm?ref=profile

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• 07-23-2008 11:32 AM

  In reply to Pit_Pointer_Aussie

  DanielleNY Joined on 05-27-2007 Posts 92 Points 5

  Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact I would feed kibble and canned. The reality is that most adoptive homes will not spend the money or go through the expense of feeding Orijen and/or raw. I always try and suggest the best food I can at a moderate price. I used to recommend Canidae because it was far superior than Dad's, etc. but since their formula and factory change I don't trust them anymore. I have a new placement that I just recommended California Natural Puppy for. The puppy formula has higher protein than the adult and is safe for all life stages. The formula only has four ingredients, so it's easy on the system for a transition food. Innova is another good quality food at a decent price. I just find that if you feed something too expensive, the home is likely to just switch back to something cheap, whereas if it's moderately priced they might stick with it. I also know that our foster dogs only get minimal vet screenings, and before I fed a new dog Orijen or any diet super-high in protein I would want to make sure the dog was perfectly healthy and have baseline bloodwork done. You don't want to exacerbate any renal or gastrointestinal problems the dog might have.

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• 07-23-2008 1:46 PM

  In reply to DanielleNY

  Pit_Pointer_Aussie Joined on 04-13-2007 Upstate New York Posts 1,571 Points 125

  Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact  Thanks all. Foster man ate a little canned pumpkin this AM and a few pieces of kibble. I think that's a good suggestion to put him on a lower priced high-quality food so the new home sticks with it, and Brookcove I am going to try that recipe! my main concern is finding a good diet for him to lose weight on. This poor dog is the fattest thing I have ever seen. He waddles when he walks, can't go any faster than a speed-waddle, and has about two inches of fat covering his whole body except his skull and limbs. He looks like an Aussie in a fat suit. I wish it was fur but sadly it's not.

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• 07-23-2008 2:54 PM

  In reply to Pit_Pointer_Aussie

  Jewlieee Joined on 03-23-2007 MI Posts 7,743 Points 4,510	Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact That's such a shame. I see so many rescue aussies fat like that.
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• 07-26-2008 7:18 PM

  In reply to Pit_Pointer_Aussie

  Stacita Joined on 08-20-2006 Sacramento, CA Posts 1,630 Points 60

  Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact I also use kibble for fosters but do add fish oil capsules, and glucosamine.  I've found it relatively easy to talk people into buying the human fish oil capsules, but more difficult with salmon oil. I do this from the experience of adopting a Belgian Malinois. They often take a while to bond with the new owner, but he was happy from the start, because his life improved. He went from eating kibble to kibble with a meat and veggie topper, got a lot of one on one time, ball throwing, and from sleeping in a crate to sleeping on a bed. He was happy from day one. The last dog we fostered was a nine year old Golden Retriever. She's a very nice dog whose elderly owner was no longer able to care for her. Her standard of living improved when she left because she now gets kibble/canned and shares a couch in the master bedroom. Her furever family also has a swimming pool which she loves. Beyond the goal of saving a life, and helping a dog become more adoptable if necessary, I think it's good to try to set things up so that the dog's "standard of living" improves with adoption. It makes the transition easier for them and the new human(s).

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• 07-26-2008 8:13 PM

  In reply to Stacita

  brookcove Joined on 09-10-2007 Semora, North Carolina, USA Posts 5,635 Points 695

  Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact That's in line with my "not quite family" philosophy with my fosters, too.  I think it's fine when I greet a former foster a few months later and they go "Whatever," though that's rarely the case with the working placements.  The first person to show them the world of being needed and having a job, is a special one to any dog.  But I'm kinda picky about the food thing, so it's more important to me that the dogs have the best possible in that respect here, and I don't think my dogs care what they eat in subsequent homes.  Just the transition to one of many to being the center of attention is a wonderful improvement in their quality of life!    It's my experience that the "glow" that the dogs usually have, speaks for itself.  Many times the new home will look at the newly adopted dog, and compare to their current dogs, and decide to continue with as much of the plan as they can.  I always give a detailed outline of what I'm doing currently (now through the wonders of Google docs I can share it instantly!).  I emphasize that there's no pressure to continue, but I'll help with as much or as little as they want to incorporate into the dog's new diet plan.   I do tell them of the importance of fish body oil and E given today's environmental challenges and hope that if nothing else they'll continue that. Becca Shouse: Irena Farm, Semora, NC Cord, Ted, Gus, Zhi, Maggie, Lynn, Lu, Min and Tully - and Sam! Waiting: Bubo & Ben http://irenafarm.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/irenafarm?ref=profile

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• 07-31-2008 4:07 PM

  In reply to brookcove

  Pit_Pointer_Aussie Joined on 04-13-2007 Upstate New York Posts 1,571 Points 125

  Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact Just wanted to update the thread that the foster is currently not eating anything.He is actually a bit of a behavioral mess, so we are withholding food to build drive to work. After that I think we will be starting back with Orijen and some natural balance food rolls and he'll only be eating it from my hand as a reward, again, because he is a bit of a behaviorial mess. Fortunately, he can stomach the Orijen, so we haven't had to do a careful transition over a week or two. That was kind of a nice surprise.

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• 07-31-2008 4:10 PM

  In reply to Pit_Pointer_Aussie

  Jewlieee Joined on 03-23-2007 MI Posts 7,743 Points 4,510	Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact  Sounds like you'll have your hands full. Good luck!
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• 07-31-2008 4:51 PM

  In reply to Pit_Pointer_Aussie

  DPU Joined on 09-19-2006 Indiana Posts 4,497 Points 365

  Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact  My plan would have been to continue feeding the dog what the dog has had in the past. It is very important for a foster dog to have consistency, a schedule, and structure.  To address the weight problem, I would have started from day one to slowly introduce mild and monitored exercise.  There are so many new things this dog is being exposed to that you don't want to overwhelm the dog with big changes.  If you do, you will only get behavior problems and you will get discouraged. Take it slow and let the dog master one thing at a time before introducing another change.  It is easier to put on weight in an emaciated dog but it is very slow to come off a dog that is overweight.  For the size of your dog, my expectation would be abut 1/2 (half) pound every week.

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• 07-31-2008 5:55 PM

  In reply to DPU

  Pit_Pointer_Aussie Joined on 04-13-2007 Upstate New York Posts 1,571 Points 125

  Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact DPU:  My plan would have been to continue feeding the dog what the dog has had in the past. It is very important for a foster dog to have consistency, a schedule, and structure.  To address the weight problem, I would have started from day one to slowly introduce mild and monitored exercise.  There are so many new things this dog is being exposed to that you don't want to overwhelm the dog with big changes.  If you do, you will only get behavior problems and you will get discouraged. Take it slow and let the dog master one thing at a time before introducing another change.  It is easier to put on weight in an emaciated dog but it is very slow to come off a dog that is overweight.  For the size of your dog, my expectation would be abut 1/2 (half) pound every week.    Hi DPU, unfortunately, home cooking for him is not an option here due to my schedule. His other food was Dad's, which admitedly, I am not willing to feed him, because I refuse to buy it and contribute to that company's profit margin. He also turned up his nose at other kibbles when I first offered those. I was looking forward to trying your foster protocol from the other thread, but this boy has proven dangerous to handle, so a lot of my standard stuff has gone out the window, as has my hope of trying new things from the start. I need to stick with what I know to keep myself, my dogs and my DH safe. Plus, if he bites anyone, his chance for a new life is over and that would be truly tragic. Some of this is clearly the stress of his whole world changing, but a lot of it is also that he is a really bossy, sharp, Aussie who has been allowed to run the household in his previous home (about the worst combo ever). The result is a dog that growls and snaps to get his way, and has a very low bite threshold. At this point, I am not even thinking about his weight, except as it relates to his physical activity, so I am on the same page with you there. I will keep the 1/2 lb. a week in mind when we start focusing on that more.

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• 07-31-2008 7:12 PM

  In reply to Pit_Pointer_Aussie

  DPU Joined on 09-19-2006 Indiana Posts 4,497 Points 365

  Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact I am sure everything will be fine except your approach is going to make trust building a longer process.  I have had fosters and some a few at a time that required a special raw diet.  I found the raw stuff took hardly time to prepare especially if you make enough that cover multiple meals.  I found you either just had to cut it up or open a can, after washing of course.  I think you should give the dog Dad's food and then transition by mixing it with some quality kibble.  The dog isn't eating and that is going to cause potential risky behavior.  My approach is take care of the dog's needs first and dinner and water is first on the list.  The only expectation on the dog should housetraining and teach the dog COME. I am concerned about the comment "dangerous to handle".  What is going on and why do you fear for yours and houehold safety?  When foster families make that claim, the rescue organization sends that dog my way and then I don't see that behavior at all.  Lets discuss what you and the dog are doing prior, during, and after this behavior is presented.

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• 07-31-2008 10:19 PM

  In reply to DPU

  luvmyswissy Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 2,268 Points 25

  Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact I have no suggestion on food or aggressiveness of this new dog but maybe on weight.  My girlfriend at work was told by the Vet that her dog HAD to loose weight, he was big and fat.  If he did not he would die, he was having heart problems.  So she cut back on the food, no snacks except carrots (apparently this dog got milk bones 100 times a day) and she hired a neighbor who jogged everyday to take her dog for exercise.  The neighbor started slow and ramped the dog up to a good steady daily exercise within 3 months this dog lost 15 POUNDS!  The Vet said that nobody he has ever told their dog need to loose weight was so successful.  She is so proud and he looks so good.  Now they exercise him themselves with nice long nightly and morning walks and the jogs are occasional but he is keeping it off because of his diet change.  So when he is ready or maybe now good exercise will help him both mentally and physically.  Good luck!

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• 08-01-2008 11:27 AM

  In reply to DPU

  Pit_Pointer_Aussie Joined on 04-13-2007 Upstate New York Posts 1,571 Points 125

  Re: Transition for foster question Reply Contact Thanks DPU. I will start a thread in a bit in the behavior area, so it will be in the right place. I do have a lot of experience with dogs behaving badly and rehabbing dogs, and I can honestly say that most dogs who are considered to have issues, usually don't or they are minor. This is the first time that I actually consider the dog to be aggressive (and only in certain, limited situations). Stay tuned!

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