Oy.. there's always something new!!

• 06-18-2008 12:17 AM

  chelsea_b Joined on 09-10-2007 Costa Mesa, CA Posts 2,743 Points 280

  Oy.. there's always something new!! Reply Contact Sheesh. So Cherokee has been making huge strides with her dog-aggression. She totally ignores most dogs we see now, vs. before when she at the very least would yank on the leash trying to get towards them, and maybe go into a full-blown freak-out... I really believe now a lot of her dog-aggression is based on frustration at not getting to meet other dogs..but it's totally a vicious cycle. She's aggressive, so I can't introduce her to other dogs, so she's aggressive... I don't know how to break the cycle. Anywho.. yeah, so she ignores most dogs, but she still strains towards some in an aggressive manor (though no barking or lunging, so that's a huge improvement), and I can't figure out what the difference is there. One dog can be 15 feet from us and she barely even looks at them, and another can be hundreds of feet away and she gets all agitated..and if it weren't for the treats I shovel into her mouth as soon as we see another dog, she'd probably be barking. It's weird. ANYway, I need to figure that one out..but I also found tonight that she has no issue LUNGING at strange cats. And this one cat around the corner has no issue coming closer to a lunging dog! So that's kind of scary. Cherokee is not aggressive with our cats. She's not exactly fond of them, but I trust her not to hurt them. But dang, I'm a little worried about this cat right in our walking route. She didn't even make a sound, just lunged up the yard at it, and the stupid cat tried to come closer. It's funny though, I apparently have this automatic response when there's a small animal coming towards us. It happened a few days ago when the neighbor's chihuahua was out and coming for us. Somehow I end up standing with Cherokee in between my legs, and I have no memory of how I got her there. LOL. Then I practically trip over her trying to put some distance in between us and the dog/cat. I posted a few weeks ago about her barking at this random woman on our walk, because it weirded me out..and apparently it was just a fluke, because we pass people all the time on our walks and she has not done anything like that again. I really feel lost when it comes to working on her aggression towards people though... I just really don't know where to start. She generalizes dogs much better than she does people. Not being aggressive towards one person means NOTHING for another person. And I don't know a lot of people who don't already know Cherokee, and I'm not really bold enough to tell people I don't know exactly how to act and what to do to make my dog not bark or snarl at them. Oh, and don't touch her, cause she might bite you?? Yeah, I see a lot of folks volunteering to help me out.. sigh... Sorry, just ranting I guess.. Chelsea &

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• 06-18-2008 6:26 AM

  In reply to chelsea_b

  Benedict Joined on 05-30-2006 England Posts 5,244 Points 770

  Re: Oy.. there's always something new!! Reply Contact Have you considered muzzling her, for the purposes of introducing her to other dogs and people without putting the responsibility on her to decide whether or not to bite? It might not be popular, but in your situation that's what I'd do.  I'd watch all other signs of body language carefully and remove her from the situation if I thought SHE was uncomfortable, but if you're right and much of her anxiety is from not being able to greet other dogs, I would muzzle her simply as a training aid.  People are more likely to help you out if they know she is completely unable to bite them, or their dogs. After several months, at least, of interaction in that way, then I might try letting her greet with the muzzle off.  JMHO.    Kate - Dog.community Administrator Jokers to the right.

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• 06-18-2008 8:38 AM

  In reply to Benedict

  mudpuppy Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 5,502 Points 100	Re: Oy.. there's always something new!! Reply Contact I think you need a professional to come watch the dog in situ as it were. In the meantime, one good trick to keep people from touching your dog during training is to buy some "service dog in training please do not touch" patches and put them on your dog. That way you don't have to ask people to do things. And nothing wrong with a muzzle.
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• 06-18-2008 9:07 AM

  In reply to mudpuppy

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 10,141 Points 735

  Re: Oy.. there's always something new!! Reply Contact JMHO, but since it's illegal to pass a dog off as a service dog if they are not, it seems that it would be inappropriate to use sdit patches for that purpose.  In any case, there is little to be said for having people think that sd's, even in training, bark and lunge on leash... I like the muzzle idea, though.  Not only  does it prevent any accidents, but you might be calmer just knowing that the dog can't do damage.   It's always a plus not to be transmitting any anxiousness down the leash to the dog.   Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 19 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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• 06-18-2008 11:42 AM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  stardog85 Joined on 09-10-2007 South Carolina, USA Posts 1,493 Points 105

  Re: Oy.. there's always something new!! Reply Contact spiritdogs: JMHO, but since it's illegal to pass a dog off as a service dog if they are not, it seems that it would be inappropriate to use sdit patches for that purpose.  In any case, there is little to be said for having people think that sd's, even in training, bark and lunge on leash... Agreed!  You can however get a vest or dog shirt with plain "In Training" or "Working Do Not Pet" patches/lettering to use.  I had one for Maggie when I was working on her under socialization issues and it did help some.  Do be aware that the vest/patches thing can intrigue people enough that they want to ask you about what you're doing and they may approach to read lettering.  I've heard of some trainers having "Training Do Not Disturb" shirts printed for them to wear vs. the dog and that may be more successful. The muzzle is a great idea imo, though I'd restrict its use to human interactions as dog-dog stuff can be very dicey with one animal muzzled.  My Maggie was much worse meeting dogs when muzzled than unmuzzled. Erin, the Amazing Maggie Mae, and Super Puppy Ziva

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• 06-18-2008 1:18 PM

  In reply to stardog85

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 10,141 Points 735

  Re: Oy.. there's always something new!! Reply Contact You can however get a vest or dog shirt with plain "In Training" or "Working Do Not Pet" patches/lettering to use. I would have absolutely no problem with that, have seen it done, and I think it's a great idea. The only problem I had was the SD connection. Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 19 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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• 06-18-2008 3:48 PM

  In reply to stardog85

  chelsea_b Joined on 09-10-2007 Costa Mesa, CA Posts 2,743 Points 280

  Re: Oy.. there's always something new!! Reply Contact stardog85: My Maggie was much worse meeting dogs when muzzled than unmuzzled. Cherokee's the same way. She immediately leaps on other dogs if she's muzzled, vs. sniffing and getting aggressive if something goes wrong (the problem is something almost always goes wrong..the time it takes just varies) if she's not muzzled. So yeah, she can't bite them..but I know very few dogs who won't get upset and try to defend themselves if there's another dog on top of them, snarling and scratching them. And then we have a dog fight with my dog unable to protect herself... Same with people.. she's way more likely to growl or bark if she's muzzled than if she's not. It stresses her out, I guess, to know she can't defend herself. I agree that I need professional help, but I just cannot possibly afford it right now. Chelsea &

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• 06-18-2008 4:20 PM

  In reply to chelsea_b

  Chuffy Joined on 12-17-2006 UK Posts 5,514 Points 10

  Re: Oy.. there's always something new!! Reply Contact chelsea_b: I really feel lost when it comes to working on her aggression towards people though... I just really don't know where to start. She generalizes dogs much better than she does people. Not being aggressive towards one person means NOTHING for another person   Don't worry about it.  Concentrate.  On.  One.  Thing.  At.  A.  Time. So, work on her dog aggression.  She is doing good with that right?  Give yourself a pat on the back, because YOU'VE got her to that point, you and your patience and hard work and willingness to tackle this issue.  That's what you should be focusing on, not what you CAN'T do, or where she has slipped up Are you giving her some kind of cue to follow when you are around other dogs?  Like, "watch me" or "sit" or "lets go!" or whatever?  I'm just thinking that when she has got the hang of this, you can introduce it with people when they are at a distance to help her generalise, so it's not a case of "no aggression with this person AND no aggression with that person AND no aggression towards that person...." but more a case of, "when you feel uncomfortable, do this."  Rather like when the fire bell goes, it can be scary, but you know what TO do, and you concentrate on that and it gives you a coping mechanism. "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life." (Pratchett, Jingo) "I used to look at [my dog] Smokey and think, 'If you were a little smarter you could tell me what you were thinking,' and he'd look at me like he was saying, 'If you were a little smarter, I wouldn't have to.'" - Fred Jungclaus

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• 06-19-2008 9:13 AM

  In reply to Chuffy

  mudpuppy Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 5,502 Points 100	Re: Oy.. there's always something new!! Reply Contact I use the patches all the time- they do not actually say "Service dog" on them, sorry about that, just "in training please do not touch". They work wonders if say you're out in a public fair working on your dog's focus in the midst of chaos.
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