Puppy Contract enforceability question

• 07-20-2006 11:03 AM

  In reply to R_Ann

  ewin0210 Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 1,298 Points 0

  RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact I asked a lawyer friend of mine. I sent her your post and she seems to think that depending on the laws in your state you could contest it.  I would seek a lawyer's help in this matter.  They would be the best prepared to help you.   Here's my friend's response: As for the contract question, it of course will depend on the law of the state the person is in (assuming that the contract states that the state is the law that governs the contract). The contract obligates the Buyer to contact the seller.  Then it looks like the Seller has the 2 options- of course I woould ahve to look a t the law of the state the contract is in to make sure it syas that if the seller has options it is the seller's choice to do either a or b.  But that is what I believe- one or the other is the seller's choice.  I would suggest she look into the info in her state for getting the dog back if that is what she wants to do- it would be an agrument of contract interpritation, but the law may be clear in her state saying that the sole and exclusive remedy is A or b and whatnot.   Have you tried to reason with this person?  Maybe let her know that you were disappointed that the litter was so small and had you not made that obligation to her to give her one that you would have kept both dogs?  I would exhaust all options by trying to reason with her before taking it to court. Which could result in quite a bit of ugliness. Since it was a stud fee puppy, perhaps you can offer to pay for the stud fee in return for the dog back.  It actually could end up less expensive than taking them to court. And I would tighten up the contract the next time you have a litter so there is no room for interpretation. Best of luck to you. I hope it all works out amicably.   Emily Powered by CGISpy.com

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• 07-20-2006 11:17 AM

  In reply to R_Ann

  rwbeagles Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW, TX Posts 18,381 Points 2,300

  RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact I also have to add that the buyer is considering the needs of the dog...to be in a pet home, that is to be commended IMO. It seems you want to "do something" with the dog with the end of competing. If I may be so bold as to suggest, I understand wanting to compete and have fun and such...but as you say the dog is neutered...it won't be bred...to in essence it's being trained and competing for the fun of it or because you'd like to. I understand people who show and/or do performace love their dogs (I'm one of them)but there is a difference in the amount of time and energy one can divide between 3 or more dogs...there are only so many hours in one day.There's no saying that the dog would not be 100% fulfilled on someone's couch....and maybe that needs to also be considered, not just what you might want to accomplish with the dog?   There is also the possibility that not in so many words...she is telling you the dog NEEDS to be in a one dog home, maybe the dog is not friendly with other animals, is difficult in some way, fearful, clingy, etc. Just a couple of thoughts... "I'm not looking for absolution, forgiveness for the things I do.."-Walking In My Shoes, Depeche Mode My blog: ryngwrayth.blogspot.com/

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• 07-20-2006 11:34 AM

  In reply to R_Ann

  probe1957 Joined on 09-10-2007 Illinois Posts 3,251 Points 110	RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact "It depends," is lawyerspeak for, give me a whole bunch of your money and we will see what happens.  [] If you can't say something nice about someone, you're probably talking about Hillary Clinton. -- Jeff Foxworthy ~Billy
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• 07-20-2006 11:46 AM

  In reply to R_Ann

  amstaffy Joined on 09-10-2007 Pennsylvania, USA Posts 1,983 Points 325

  RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact In your replies to the questions, here are my thoughts... This dog is the "fee" paid for the "stud service". This dog warrants a "pet price" the owner of the dog is very much able to recoup their interest in this dog as if you did pay a stud fee they would have received financial payment for such. The costs you incurred were just that, your costs as the bitches owner. No one will "beg" me enough to make a deccission regarding who I will breed my bitch too if it is not in my plans. You as the breeder and bitch owner make the last choice unless you of course co-own this bitch with another who has an interest in the litter as well. There should have been no contract from you on this dog as he was payment for a stud service. 1 puppy does not constitute a litter, more then one does. I'm sorry, this is probably not what you wanted to hear but this is how my contracts work and how I also respect the parties breeding to my dogs. My stud puppy's bite went off after he was pointed and never finished his championship. He was placed, not sold. My interest in that breeding was gone, my choice. I didn't expect the owner of the bitch to request this boy back as he was not hers to ask for. He was my payment for stud service as is this dog your speaking of. Please Lord if I must lead only one life, let it be at the end of an Am Staff

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• 07-20-2006 11:46 AM

  In reply to R_Ann

  dasher Joined on 09-10-2007 Easton, MD Posts 1,222 Points 175

  RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact Lovekay I see why you'd disagree but contracts are not about what is IMPLIED...they are about what's stated plainly. I would have to disagree with that.  I was involved in a court case involving an employment contract.  The judge ruled in favor of the employee based on what was "implied" in the contract. (Judge's exact words).  I think really it would depend on the judge and the state you live in on which way the case would go.  Its tough any which way you look at it.  Heidandseek is right, I also have witnessed many a horse deal unfold the same way.  Owner selling horse wants rights to first refusal should buyer sell horse.  Never happens.  Bottom line is once you sell or give in lieu of payment, that person owns said dog/horse and thats that.  They can do whatever they want with them. Makes you think twice before you do business with anyone.  That's my [sm=2cents.gif] anyway [] -Ivette If your dog doesn't like someone you probably shouldn't either. - Unknown

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• 07-20-2006 11:59 AM

  In reply to R_Ann

  R_Ann Joined on 07-20-2006 Posts 8 Points 0

  RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact Thanks again for all of the responses. Glad I found this board to sound off on. We are not going to persue this legally because we know the contract is not "detailed" enough and it's not worth the $$$ or aggravation. It's more that our feelings are hurt that she is pulling this and wondered if we could push the envelope so to say. History: We own the bitch and we paid for all fees associated with the breeding-which as many of you will know is alot more than a natural. She had been bred 2x prior with 10 puppies in her previous litter so we were disapointed when there were only 2 (males). Even after the litter was born she seemed "distant" about it and wasn't all that interested in the puppies, didn't visit (she moved closer-now an hour away) whereas the other owner was there alot to see the puppies at their different stages of growth.Stud owner kept telling us which puppy she liked from pics each time (same puppy) so we had basically planned on her taking that pup. Two days before pick up she starts with hers being first pick and she isn't sure which one she wants and will make up her mind after she sees them on pick up day. Well, DH had enough and told her that she was getting the one she said she liked all along and she should've come down and see them in person. (I actually liked the one she has more) I think she feels she was "slighted". Three months later she tells me that when she went for another vet appt-only 1 testicle was down the other was way up and her vet said it wasn't going to come down and basically blamed me for a "defective" line even though I know it has never happened in any of our litters or pedigree. (It was down when we sold it to her, it was down on her first vet check). I think at that time she decided she wasn't going to do anything with him but told me she would never get rid of him. (I offered to take him back then too). Fast forward to now.  I will let her know that we're disapointed by her actions and what are plans would be for him and I hope she finds a good home for him will forw anyone that asks. thanks again all, RA

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• 07-20-2006 12:08 PM

  In reply to R_Ann

  amstaffy Joined on 09-10-2007 Pennsylvania, USA Posts 1,983 Points 325

  RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact Those are the ups and downs of breeding.   I have found through my years I learn something every litter, every relationship, every dog. I'm sure you've also learned something very valuable from this as well. Take it posative and move on from here to not have this happen to you again.   So on a brighter note....lets see some pics of your dogs!!! Please Lord if I must lead only one life, let it be at the end of an Am Staff

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• 07-20-2006 1:51 PM

  In reply to R_Ann

  loveukaykay Joined on 03-20-2006 New Orleans Posts 5,034 Points 5

  RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact I just see sooooo many contracts.  Our real estate contracts are two long pages front and back in tiny type and each real estate company has their own version. There are still loop holes.  I have worked within the loop holes both ways before.  I have also been sued 2 times in this business and have won both cases.  I save all emails and papers.  Its good to know the contracts front and back and as well as you can BUT they do imply lots of things.  I remember from a class I was required to take is that when the wording gets confusing in these things (because we as agents add our own lengthy paragraphs from time to time) is that its what you basically take a way from it.  That means if you worded it wrong or it sounds like it meant something else, thats what it meant.  (Of course that is my state and each may be different, I have no idea). Either way its very important to be very clear and make sure that everyone understands all terms ahead of time.  Of course even then if things turn bad it can get ugly.  Maybe for the future you can reword it to eliminate any confusion.  If your just doing this to be a good breeder maybe you should let her find a home for him where hes really wanted for a family pet, and be involved in the process.  Just a thought. ~Amy~

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• 07-20-2006 6:47 PM

  In reply to R_Ann

  noblewoman Joined on 09-10-2007 Western Pennsylvania Posts 206 Points 0

  RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact ORIGINAL: R_Ann  Though the owner loves the dog she has not been happy with the dog because he is not "show quality" and she feels he will not perform in the field as she wants. I know this isn't really the issue here, but what I can't wrap my brain around is the fact that you can love a dog yet not want to keep him because he isn't 'show quality'. And then to NOT want to keep a dog you supposedly love because of this is beyond me. It makes me feel very sad for the dog.......

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• 07-20-2006 9:50 PM

  In reply to R_Ann

  rwbeagles Joined on 09-10-2007 DFW, TX Posts 18,381 Points 2,300

  RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact Nope it's not the issue here, but it's one that gets bandied about often enough here. I just have to say when you breed dogs and you show or do some sort of work with your dogs, and plan on having a goal and a line,...unless you live in one of the few places on earth with no neighbors and no dog limits....you will have to make decisions on who you keep....otherwise you will never be getting anywhere with your goals as a breeder.   It's fine that some don't understand or agree with that but as the saying goes you need to have walked a mile before you can judge people...at least I'd hope anyone would want to before judging....but who knows, wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, lol. "I'm not looking for absolution, forgiveness for the things I do.."-Walking In My Shoes, Depeche Mode My blog: ryngwrayth.blogspot.com/

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• 07-20-2006 10:09 PM

  In reply to R_Ann

  noblewoman Joined on 09-10-2007 Western Pennsylvania Posts 206 Points 0	RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact I'm not judging- I'm just saying that it's hard for me to understand loving a dog, yet not wanting to keep it because it's 'flawed' in some way, thats all... What I question is the love part. It seems to me that true, genuine love would override the 'flaws'.
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• 07-21-2006 9:07 AM

  In reply to R_Ann

  R_Ann Joined on 07-20-2006 Posts 8 Points 0

  RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact It is hard being a breeder (esp us who only breed occasionally and put alot of research thought and effort into it for a puppy to better the breed and for our own line) and to make the decisions on what to keep and what not to. We have been in the same position where we have decided to rehome a dog  now and then. We have also been very lucky that the dogs we rehome are to people that we still see and keep in contact with so the dogs are never really "gone". Since we've never had the problem of somone not wanting to return a dog to us if they felt they couldn't keep it this has been asnew situation. I guess I also never thought of the "stud puppy" as being "different" than a "bought" puppy. But it's still the blow that we aren't "good enough" to take the dog back that hurts and will prob affect our friendship as well. But-life goes on -we'll still get our doggie kisses and go on to bigger and brighter things. Here's our website which has a couple of pics of the crew [linkhttp://www.rollinridge.4t.com]www.rollinridge.4t.com[/link] (it's still under contruction) RA

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• 07-21-2006 10:58 AM

  In reply to R_Ann

  noblewoman Joined on 09-10-2007 Western Pennsylvania Posts 206 Points 0

  RE: Puppy Contract enforceability question Reply Contact ORIGINAL: R_Ann  But it's still the blow that we aren't "good enough" to take the dog back that hurts and will prob affect our friendship as well. But-life goes on -we'll still get our doggie kisses and go on to bigger and brighter things. RA   Completely understandable. I would feel the same way! I'm sure that's its NOT because you're not good enough to take the dog back, but rather some goofy reason on their part. I would have felt the same way, and I'm sure most others would also. And I'm sure for some breeders it's a hard decision to rehome a dog. I guess the part that makes me scratch my head is that these people had the dog for TWO YEARS and are able to let it go because of perceived flaws in the dog.

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