H1N1 vaccine

• 10-25-2009 6:59 AM

  In reply to jenn52

  denise m Joined on 12-06-2006 Toronto Canada Posts 1,605 Points 200

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact jenn52: ottoluv: You are so right... you totally know more then the thousands of highly trained professionals who develop, test, and administer the vaccines. I don't trust anything when big money like that is behind it.    I'm a little suspicious when it comes to the drug manufactures. The information we are receiving in Canada is mixed and confusing - even from the "thousands of highly trained professionals". Our gov't is providing the H1N1 vaccine for everyone. That is one big contract. When public opinion showed people were hesitant and many were opting to just do the season flu shot, we were advised that having the season vaccine could increase your chances of contracting H1N1 and we should hold off until the H1N1 became available and have it first, followed be the seasonal. Meaning it was basically all or nothing. Then they said that pregnant woman were at high risk and should have the vaccine. Oh, wait! Not the one everyone else is taking, they needed to wait a little longer for the adjunct free vaccine. It seems everyday the information is changing.  The other thing that concerns me is the tracking of this flu. They are not screening flu patients, only assuming if you have the flu or flu symptoms it is H1N1. It makes me wonder if the numbers are a little skewed. This is a gold mine for the drug companies. Every year there will be some new deadly virus and every year the drug companies will pump out their latest vaccines. Every year the Canadian gov't will hand over fist full of dollars. Sounds like a good gig to me.

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• 10-25-2009 8:33 AM

  In reply to denise m

  spiritdogs Joined on 09-10-2007 Posts 11,729 Points 1,020

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact I think that getting a flu vaccine, or not, is a personal decision, but one which should be made based on fact and not fantasy.  The Internet is just as full of quacks who will provide non-scientific arguments for their unfounded points of view as this place is of people who believe TV shows instead of educated dog behaviorists.  You will never convince them - it's like a freaking religion.  That said, I'm sure that there is risk associated with any vaccine, any disease, any decision.  What people need to decide is whether the risk from being vaccinated is greater than the risk from the disease being vaccinated against.  If you are young, or pregnant, or diabetic, the risk may be greater from H1N1.  If you are ancient like me, with plenty of antibodies built up over 5 decades, maybe not.  But, the fact is that a certain number of people will die from any flu.  Mike's mother (diabetic) died from seasonal flu complications despite Tamiflu, so this hits very close to home for me.  We wish she had gotten an effective vaccine that year!  It's well to remember that you don't have to worry about diseases like smallpox because of vaccines.  It's really interesting how quickly people forget that the world was once a much more dangerous place (I'd be willing to bet that most of you who don't want the vaccine are under 40) - my great grandmother lost three children on the same day to diphtheria.  You never hear about anyone getting diphtheria any more - would you even know the symptoms???  Children in my elementary school, who sat just a row or two from me, came down with polio and were crippled for life.  Our parents thought Jonas Salk was a god when he developed the polio vaccine.  We all got chickenpox and knew that we might get painful shingles as adults (maybe not - there's a new shingles vaccine).  So, some of what you rail against probably saved your life, or the life of someone you love who you now share the planet with.  It is a fact that when there were no vaccines, more people died.  I say, take your own chances, as people always have.  Just don't use bad science and quackery to convince others of your point of view.  Show me a legitimate study, done by an impartial scientist with reputable training. Or, sleep in the blankets the Pilgrims bring you;-)     Regional Director for Massachusetts, International Positive Dog Training Association Director, SeniorCare Pawsitive Connections Program AKC CGC Evaluator #3669 Therapy Dogs, Inc. Tester/Observer Sioux, CGC, TDInc. Maska, CGC, TDInc. Sequoyah, CGC Fergie, Retired Lap Dog, Age 20 1/2 Dancer, CGC, TDInc. (1989-2006) #1 Heart Dog In memory of Mike, please become an organ donor today. "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys." - Chief Dan George "The fidelity of a dog is a precious gift demanding no less binding moral responsibilities than the friendship of a human being. The bond with a true dog is as lasting as the ties of this earth can ever be." ~ Konrad Lorenz

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• 10-25-2009 9:00 AM

  In reply to spiritdogs

  JackieG Joined on 04-15-2008 Central Texas Posts 5,951 Points 710	Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact I agree, Anne.  Especially with this statement quoted below.   spiritdogs: Just don't use bad science and quackery to convince others of your point of view.  Show me a legitimate study, done by an impartial scientist with reputable training.
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• 10-25-2009 9:23 AM

  In reply to JackieG

  Cita Joined on 12-13-2006 CT Posts 5,630 Points 850

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact  Well said, Anne!! I'm guessing most of the people who are adamantly anti-vaccine don't have a strong background in science? I know it's easy to be suspicious of things we don't understand, but to me, flat-out refusing well tested medical care like vaccinations is askin to the families who refuse to take their ill children to the doctor because they are "praying for them" and "prayer heals." Well, okay, maybe it does, but I think it heals a heck of a lot better when a doctor is helping, too! Similarly, vitamins and herbs can be great... when used with scientific medicine, not instead of it. I think part of the trouble is that the actual scientific studies/papers showing these sorts of things are often inaccessible to the lay public (requires a pricey subscription, which is usually only bought by an institution like a university or hospital) and is written in very technical language that is hard to understand. That makes it seem much more intimidating than if it were simplified a bit and more widely publicized.

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• 10-25-2009 11:37 AM

  In reply to Cita

  Kim_MacMillan Joined on 11-21-2006 Eastern Canada Posts 1,600 Points 200

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact Wellll....coming from a purely scientific background, I've learned that there is no such thing as as unbiased scientist. I know people will hate to believe that, but...it's true. We have even discussed that in just about every immuno, bio, chem, and behavioural class I've taken. It's not that the research may not be valid, but every study produced does come with it's own personal biased spin....something so simple as how a statement is worded. I didn't go to med school, but I did study immunology, microbiology, and physiology for four years, so I would like to think I'm not depending on "quack" science. I know how vaccines work, why they work, and how they effect change in the body and cause you to produce antibodies to those antigens. But, I also know some of the vehicles those vaccines use to inject vaccines, what those antigens are grown on and what animal tissues are used in making vaccines. I am also aware of the many diseases, especially in young children, that were not existant or were very minimal "many years ago", that today are only increasing in frequency, and are being studied as to whether long-term vaccine use, and even short-term vaccine use, has contributed to these diseases. No, one should not base their decisions on internet webpages or anecdotal evidence. But would be nice if folks don't assume that people who choose not to get the vaccine are somehow ignorant or uneducated. Just as many totally educated folks are blatantly refusing to get the vaccine as any non-scientific person. Zipper, 6 yo. Gaci, 5 yo. Shimmer, 2.5 yo.

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• 10-25-2009 11:41 AM

  In reply to Kim_MacMillan

  Cita Joined on 12-13-2006 CT Posts 5,630 Points 850

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact Sorry, no offense meant. I certainly understand wanting to pick and choose which vaccines to take - I think it's quite smart. I merely meant that categorically being "anti-vaccine" does not, to me, seem to be a position based on science.  Thinking only "vaccines are good" and going out and getting every single one available would be about as foolish as getting none at all, IMO! No way I'm getting, say, the Yellow Fever vaccine unless I'm going to be needing it. I don't mean that people who choose not to get the vaccine are uneducated or ignorant. I myself am choosing not to get the vaccine.

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• 10-25-2009 11:50 AM

  In reply to Cita

  Kim_MacMillan Joined on 11-21-2006 Eastern Canada Posts 1,600 Points 200

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact No no, Cita, I wasn't responding to you specifically...sorry, I just hit Reply to the last post on the thread!! I was just making a general point that there are some educated folks out there choosing not to take the vaccine, just as there are some educated folks out there who do decide to get it. The point is, yes, smart and educated decision-making. Neither should be judged for the decisions they make, is all I was trying to say. Zipper, 6 yo. Gaci, 5 yo. Shimmer, 2.5 yo.

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• 10-25-2009 12:08 PM

  In reply to Cita

  ottoluv Joined on 11-27-2006 So Cal Posts 3,003 Points 525

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact Just a quick response for Kim, the reason that come childhood diseases are remerging is not because vaccines stopped working. There is a certain percentage of the population that do not form antibodies when vaccinated. I am a measles nonresponder and have been revaccinated several times and still my antibody levels are too low probably to form immunity. The spread of the disease generally happens in pockets of people who do not vaccinate their children, and occasionally spread to a poor soul who is a nonresponder. We are seeing more measles recently for this reason. A majority of people here who present were never vaccinated. This obviously worries me since I'm high risk and am exposed to all sort of lovely things daily and don't for immunity. Pubmed is accessable to everyone but you are right, the language is difficult for the lay person to understand. This is why you go to a physician and get guidance for decisions. Recieving guidance from naturalnews.com or some other quack on the internet is not the correct option IMPO. Be smart in who you trust, don't suffer from the delusion that you know as much as a professional, and don't fall into conspiracy theories. I don't see anyone saying that all vaccines are good, or that they offer perfect immunity, or have no side effects. What is said is that there it is estimated that 60% of the american population will get H1N1. Many will die needlessly because some stupid, irresponsible people spread incorrect information on the internet. After reading the info provided by my hopital, I decided to get it because I'm in contact with no less then 20 patients a day. If I contract it, even if I do fine which I likely will, I could pass to someone who does not. In that case I'm partially responsible for their death because of my selfish decision. I think it's a selfish decision for someone who has contact with large amounts of sick people to not take it. Here I am stuck in the middle with you I practice societal sanctioned assault

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• 10-25-2009 2:49 PM

  In reply to ottoluv

  stardog85 Joined on 09-10-2007 South Carolina, USA Posts 2,355 Points 235

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact  I'm currently on the fence about the H1N1 vaccine.  I checked the "Use of H1N1 2009 Monovalent Vaccine" paper on the CDC site and I'm at the top of the age range considered an "initial target group" (I'm 24 and their age range is 6mo-24yo if not immunocompromised).  My age group, etc. does not even appear on the recommendations for distribution during limited availability.  I do interact with the public, but no one considered high risk at this point and not in huge numbers (a max about 45 adult dog training students/week, with maybe one or two kids under 16 in private lessons, and then passing interaction with 40 coworkers and maybe 10-15 members of the public).  I do get an annual flu vaccine and the only year I didn't in recent memory I got sick more, so I will continue to get it.  Erin, the Amazing Maggie Mae, Ziva the Wonder Dog, and Kestrel the Up and Coming "Always keep one still, secret spot where dreams may go." - Louise Priscoll

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• 10-25-2009 5:13 PM

  In reply to stardog85

  marty_ga Joined on 09-10-2007 Georgia Posts 2,365 Points 210

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact  If it becomes available to my older age group, I will get it.  When I was 12, I almost died from pneumonia and was out of school for 7 weeks.  That is not an experience I care to repeat if I can do something to avoid it.  I believe it was 2 years after the supposed swine flu came through, but there is no way to know what I did have now.  There is also a strong possibility that my 2 very young granddaughters (and Mom and Dad) may have to move in with me, and they catch everything going around at that age.  Off to invest in Lysol...  :)

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• 10-25-2009 5:49 PM

  In reply to marty_ga

  erica1989 Joined on 02-21-2007 Clearwater, Florida Posts 4,363 Points 410

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact  My brother is getting one (he's 16 - in high school). I'm, personally, not planning on getting one - unless my dr. recommends it for me. I've never had a flu shot, and have not gotten the flu in at least 10-ish years (I'm 20, almost 21). I used to get strep throat in Chicago every winter, but have not gotten that since I moved to FL. I'm very rarely sick, my Dr. has never recommended additional vaccines for me.

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• 10-25-2009 7:39 PM

  In reply to erica1989

  l.michelle Joined on 06-15-2007 Ontario, Canada Posts 1,681 Points 20

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact The thing that concerns me about the vaccine, is because it's still new, there is no knowing what the long term effects will be.  It's the same with the guardisil vaccine, although cervical cancer runs in my family, I am very worried about getting it, the side effects don't seem very good and who knows what effects there could be in the long term.  I go every year for my annual physical, and for now i think that is sufficient

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• 10-25-2009 9:38 PM

  In reply to ottoluv

  Liesje Joined on 03-02-2007 Posts 9,917 Points 655

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact ottoluv: Many will die needlessly because some stupid, irresponsible people spread incorrect information on the internet. After reading the info provided by my hopital, I decided to get it because I'm in contact with no less then 20 patients a day. If I contract it, even if I do fine which I likely will, I could pass to someone who does not. In that case I'm partially responsible for their death because of my selfish decision. I think it's a selfish decision for someone who has contact with large amounts of sick people to not take it.   This is why my DH agreed to get it (and I wasn't going to give him a choice!).  He is young and healthy, but he's a teacher, elementary resource room.  Kids come and go all day.  I simply told him he needed to get it and it would be selfish of him not to.  Luckily he already was planning on getting it.  I've heard of too many kids in the age group he teaches that have died from the complications.  Each time it hits closer to home.  I just simply cannot fathom anyone who has kids or works around kids not getting it (unless they have a medical reason of course). We can spare $20 bucks and some minimal discomfort.  Heck I'd rather have some complications later down the road than know a child to suffer and die. http://vankelderdogs.dutchbingo.net http://www.schhmi.com

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• 10-25-2009 9:47 PM

  In reply to Liesje

  janobonano Joined on 09-10-2007 northern WI Posts 8,078 Points 1,425	Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact Liesje: Heck I'd rather have some complications later down the road than know a child to suffer and die.   Yeah, unless those complications later down the road mean my child being born with three eyes, one arm and a tail.
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• 10-26-2009 12:54 AM

  In reply to Cita

  miranadobe Joined on 04-06-2006 Purgatory Posts 5,447 Points 315

  Re: H1N1 vaccine Reply Contact Cita: I wouldn't want it because, with the shortages, I'd feel like I was "taking" it from someone else who would need it more. That's the way I feel, too.  My grandmother lives in an assisted living community, and when there's an outbreak of any sickness, the whole place shuts down and people are relegated to their rooms because these folks are sooo susceptible to getting sick from eachother, and in their health, they can go down very quickly.  I'd rather the vaccine be available for those people ahead of me. I don't live with kids, elderly, or anyone with compromised respiratory/immune health.  I work with adults in an environment set to 45 degrees, where food is handled and therefore hand-washing is mandatory.  The only place I come in contact with people outside that are the grocery store and the train to work.  (Luckily, this train is exceptionally clean and NOT crowded, unlike the north-bound train.  If I was on that crowded one, it would affect my decision to get the vaccine.)  I doubt I'll ever get any flu vaccine because I'm healthy and strong enough to deal with a flu, and I only live with my sister.  I don't come in direct contact with that many people.  If I had children or others in my home to worry about, was pregnant, or had some other significant change to my health or home/work environment, I'd consider it. Edit - whoa, that's what I get for not reading the entire thread before replying!!!   Want to repeat these quotes: spiritdogs: That said, I'm sure that there is risk associated with any vaccine, any disease, any decision.  spiritdogs: It's well to remember that you don't have to worry about diseases like smallpox because of vaccines.  It's really interesting how quickly people forget that the world was once a much more dangerous place in health terms. spiritdogs: Just don't use bad science and quackery to convince others of your point of view.  Show me a legitimate study, done by an impartial scientist with reputable training.  The only quacks I want are out of Miss Corky!!! Paige - dog.community moderator & Gracie - 6yr old Doberman www.fortunatek9.com Fight for your opinions, but do not believe that they contain the whole truth, or the only truth. ~W. Hamilton "So you've 'had dogs all your life'? I've had teeth all my life. Doesn't make me a dentist." - JV McDonough, Certified Dog Trainer

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